Improve January lambing %

[Man_in_black]

Morning crew, after some collective.

Scanned yesterday & third year in row it's not been what we'd like (150%). So basically I'm going through some options & just want others options as otherwise I look mad talking to myself.

Currently have Tex X ewes (mainly crossed with lleyn). Everything put back to tex tups. We lamb in January, usually starting 1st week but have pushed it back couple weeks this year see if that would help. Lamb indoors. Fed cake in troughs once brought in 6 weeks prior to lambing. Have access to GP licks year round
Very happy with ewes, have culled hard last two seasons. Left with good mothers & the lambs are spot on.
Everything goes dead through our own farm shop.
We flush & use teaser. Will be getting bloods at some point. Lambs are bolused as low in selenium.
So what are my options?
Ideally we'd rather keep the ewes but that not set in stone...
My gaffers Mrs 10 pet Dorsets scanned over 200%; dorsets commercially anyone? Neither of us like Suffolk or mules very much. Very keen on roussin but would that improve anything?
Staying with tex tups is a definite.
Regulin - no experience at all, please fill me in someone.

Any other thoughts gratefully taken on board.

Diolch

 

[Nithsdale]

Think you already know the answer. It's the Texel and Lleyn (probably moreso the Lleyn) in the ewes holding the job back, you're lambing too early for them.

Get some Dorset blood into the ewes would help greatly as they lamb easily 'out of season'

 

[Skintagain]

I think you are battling with nature to be honest and at 150% you are doing well.

 

[neilo]

As above, Texel or Lleyn blood lambing in early January is pushing them to the absolute start of their breeding season, which will pull prolificacy back. 150% isn’t bad for that early with those tbh.

You can either bring their natural season forward by introducing Suffolk or Dorset blood, or do it artificially with Regulin or Sponges/PMSG (if you don’t want to synchronise I’d go with the Regulin).
Changing the genetics will take time obviously, and if you like the ewes you’ve got, I’d try Regulin for next year. it’s about £3/dose iirc, and needs a bit of forward planning, but it will basically trick your existing ewes into thinking their lambing a month later. I doubt you’ll get up near 200% anyway, unless changing genetics or selecting for prolificacy.

A change of terminal ram breed would obviously improve your lambs dramatically , but it won’t improve the scanning %age appreciably.

Oh, and check bloods for TE status. If lambs are short of selenium, it would be surprising if the ewes on the same place weren’t low too.

 

[elmo]

Been in a very similar situation to yourself. Did have flock of mostly Suffolk/Texel x's with a few others but have gone more down the Suffolk x Mule breed over the last few years and seen my % increase as a result. As Neilo says it's probably the Texel/Lleyn that aren't quite ready at that time of year. Have no experience of Regulin but did sponge & PMSG for a few years but found the cost too high for the variable results. Might be better if i tried it now with the flock suitable to lamb at that time of year.

 

[neilo]

Seasonality of breeding in sheep is governed by day length, with shorter days leading to more melatonin being produced. Regulin is a slow release pellet of melatonin placed implanted under the skin, so the sheep is tricked into thinking it is later in the season that it really is. If you mate a Regulin treated ewe in early August, she would produce the results that she would ordinarily have produced a month or so later. The results are supposed to be quite reliable, much more so than the sponge/PMSG route.

Obviously it's an extra cost and an extra job though.

 

[Man_in_black]

laced implanted under the skin,

Do you need any specific extra equipment to administer?

 

[neilo]

Do you need any specific extra equipment to administer?

The implants come in strip cartridges which you place under the skin behind the ear with a special gun. Just make sure you restrain them well and it’s pretty easy.
Give the rams 2 pellets each at the same time and they will be as fertile & active as they would be in season too.

You should be able to get the gun cheaper than this if you shop around...

VetMedicinesDirect

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vetmedicinesdirect.co.uk

Good explanation here:

The Use of Regulin by Sue Quigley, Michaelchurch flock - H&M Ryeland Group

THE USE OF REGULIN IN THE MANIPULATION OF OESTRUS IN RYELAND EWES In a previous article in Follow the Flock Zoe Unwin described the use of CIDR OVIS to synchronise and / or to bring forward estrus in ewes. Estrus being the period of time when a ewe is receptive to the ram and […]

hmryelandgroup.co.uk

 

[yellowbelly]

Do you need any specific extra equipment to administer?

Just one of these......

We're scanning ours next week. Implanted some Lincolns, so I'll let you know how we get on.

 

[Nithsdale]

The implants come in strip cartridges which you place under the skin behind the ear with a special gun. Just make sure you restrain them well and it’s pretty easy.
Give the rams 2 pellets each at the same time and they will be as fertile & active as they would be in season too.

You should be able to get the gun cheaper than this if you shop around...

VetMedicinesDirect

Shop powered by PrestaShop

vetmedicinesdirect.co.uk

Good explanation here:

The Use of Regulin by Sue Quigley, Michaelchurch flock - H&M Ryeland Group

THE USE OF REGULIN IN THE MANIPULATION OF OESTRUS IN RYELAND EWES In a previous article in Follow the Flock Zoe Unwin described the use of CIDR OVIS to synchronise and / or to bring forward estrus in ewes. Estrus being the period of time when a ewe is receptive to the ram and […]

hmryelandgroup.co.uk

Would the tup then work on, later into the autumn, as usual? Or does it alter the natural cycle?

 

[yellowbelly]

Would the tup then work on, later into the autumn, as usual? Or does it alter the natural cycle?

Come on Niths, if you got your leg over on a Tuesday it'd hardly stop you going out on Friday night to try and get a bit more


Meanwhile, back to the question.....
I've lent 2 tups out and sold another, that were in the Regulin mob, and they appear to be still keen to work

 

[neilo]

Would the tup then work on, later into the autumn, as usual? Or does it alter the natural cycle?

I've only ever used it a couple of times, and the rams carried on working OK. Without testing the ram's fertility in a very detailed fashion, you'd likely never know anyway, as long as he was still getting ewes in lamb, particularly as most people only run a handful of ewes per ram in the UK.
Regulin only supplements the natural melatonin levels early on, so I presume natural levels would take over later in the season anyway?

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Mate of mine was on pure Dorset’s, wanted to up his lamb quality and stop this 230% job. so kept a ruck of his texel Dorset cross ewe lambs. Still lambed at Christmas, better lambs and still around the 180-200% mark.

If I were you I’d buy a bunch of good draft Dorset’s, put the texel on them and keep the ewe lambs.

Alternatively another mate who lambs on the 1st December has started buying texel ewe lambs out of the Cheviot mule or NC Mule from me. Reckons they do 175-190% in the early mob. He was getting down to 120-135% out of 7/8 texel bred ewes. Terrific lambs and they suit his outlet perfectly but there just weren’t enough of them.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Mate of mine was on pure Dorset’s, wanted to up his lamb quality and stop this 230% job. so kept a ruck of his texel Dorset cross ewe lambs. Still lambed at Christmas, better lambs and still around the 180-200% mark.

If I were you I’d buy a bunch of good draft Dorset’s, put the texel on them and keep the ewe lambs.

Alternatively another mate who lambs on the 1st December has started buying texel ewe lambs out of the Cheviot mule or NC Mule from me. Reckons they do 175-190% in the early mob. He was getting down to 120-135% out of 7/8 texel bred ewes. Terrific lambs and they suit his outlet perfectly but there just weren’t enough of them.

Pure Dorsets 230 % ? Your joking surely?

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Pure Dorsets 230 % ? Your joking surely?

Nope. He was constantly moaning about his pure Dorset ewes throwing triplets. He’s got a good arable farm mind, constant reseeds and not over stocked.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Nope. He was constantly moaning about his pure Dorset ewes throwing triplets. He’s got a good arable farm mind, constant reseeds and not over stocked.

Wow, must be a good portion of Finn in them 'pure' Dorsets or something I should think ...

Does he Lamb once a yr or 3x in 2 yrs ?

 

[Sosb79]

We used to lamb suff/lleyns in January they regularly scanned out at about 215% which to be honest was far to many lambs for that time of year. Slowly bred the lleyn out of them we now scan out at about 160% for January which much better suits our land and system.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Wow, must be a good portion of Finn in them 'pure' Dorsets or something I should think ...

Does he Lamb once a yr or 3x in 2 yrs ?

He was on 3x every 2. But he’s gone too every year now. When he turned 65 he wanted too take it a bit easier. Puts his Dorset x texel ewes too the Rouge for easy lambing and gets a damn good price for his lambs in Drayton

I wouldn’t know the make up of his Dorset’s. He bought good type of ewes too start with but I don’t know where from.

 

[Bury the Trash]

He was on 3x every 2. But he’s gone too every year now. When he turned 65 he wanted too take it a bit easier. Puts his Dorset x texel ewes too the Rouge for easy lambing and gets a damn good price for his lambs in Drayton

I wouldn’t know the make up of his Dorset’s. He bought good type of ewes too start with but I don’t know where from.

Good Rouge on Dorset is a smashing lamb. The fat of the dorset complimented the lean of the Rouge .
I used struggle with Dorset ewes being too fat on an annual lambing (good ground here) that pulled down the the amount of lambs down 3 times in 2 was better in that respect, but some 'odd' lambing times will never have a high %. So average is down.
I never did much better than 1.5 or 6
I wouldnt want any texel in Dorset though I must admit.

 

[MJT]

If you want to keep the texel in your ewes I could provide you some inverdale gene carrying texel rams to increase the prolifacy of your replacement ewes.......