Improving fat class

[Man_in_black]

Finding drawing lambs a challenge recently weeks. First few groups killed out really nicely but recently I'm finding they don't feel finished despite weighing well. If you saw pic of them in a pen at mart you'd think they smart lambs, but lay hand on them and not what you'd expect.

We don't get a grade sheet but I'd estimate R2s most would be recently. Happy-ish with shape but really needing more cover.

My question is, would you be thinking this is a breed/type of ewes/ tup issue or a feed protein issue? We're heavily texel based, all tups & lot of tex blood in ewes. Gradually switching over to pure lleyn ewes/own replacements. Lambs on PP.

Lambs regularly FEC & worm if needed. Had bolus, not due again (replacement) until January.

Appreciate any thoughts.

 

[gatepost]

Well in general terms, the amount of lean meat is genetic and fat is feeding, but we all know that the levels of fat an animal carries at any given time has a genetic base, old down breeds tend to be fatter at lighter wts, I hate to have to say it as a Texel breeder, but it will depend a lot on where your tups have come from, I'm afraid the heavily fed sheep have taken over wither its super large shearlings or showy lambs, some are pretty awful under the fat and feed, and those bloodlines are taking over via ET , but fat class 2 is fine if the lamb has got a really good loin, the trade don't want ''fat lambs'' the problem is a lot don't have much of a loin, and that's goes for a lot of breeds/sheep. tin hat on!

 

[puppet]

Some may have shot a bit but should fatten better again. Sounds like you are covering other issues so maybe a bit of cake needed to just finish them. However, last year buyers were happy with big lambs which didn't feel fully fleshed

 

[Man_in_black]

maybe a bit of cake needed to just finish them.

That's what I'm having to resort to to get next bigggest finished but it's not feasible long term, or even for the couple of hundred left.

I'm hoping it's cos of the wet spring/summer. The low dry matter % meaning that although there is plenty of grass, they're not as much ommpf in it... Not had problems finishing before with these ewes or tups.

 

[Al R]

That's what I'm having to resort to to get next bigggest finished but it's not feasible long term, or even for the couple of hundred left.

I'm hoping it's cos of the wet spring/summer. The low dry matter % meaning that although there is plenty of grass, they're not as much ommpf in it... Not had problems finishing before with these ewes or tups.

Same here. Lambs killing out terrible and lean, lush grass which is far to wet and with temps in low teens lambs were doing 200g/day and not 400g/day. Hoping to have turned a corner with them now but going big weights now

 

[ringi]

Would mixing freshly cut grass with hay to make a TMR work in these cases?

 

[Al R]

Would mixing freshly cut grass with hay to make a TMR work in these cases?

Try and find hay plenty of haylage around though

 

[hendrebc]

Would mixing freshly cut grass with hay to make a TMR work in these cases?

If your going to go to the trouble of mixing grass you may as well give them some pellets or something. Its dry so slows down their digestion and gets some energy into them so they can utilise the protein in the grass better. They won't eat much if there is enough grass but a little bit goes a long way (or it should )
Mixing some hay would probably work though I give hay to cows to slow their guts down when the grass is too lush in spring or autumn. Grazing dairy farms do it as well and call it buffer feeding.

 

[andybk]

Well in general terms, the amount of lean meat is genetic and fat is feeding, but we all know that the levels of fat an animal carries at any given time has a genetic base, old down breeds tend to be fatter at lighter wts, I hate to have to say it as a Texel breeder, but it will depend a lot on where your tups have come from, I'm afraid the heavily fed sheep have taken over wither its super large shearlings or showy lambs, some are pretty awful under the fat and feed, and those bloodlines are taking over via ET , but fat class 2 is fine if the lamb has got a really good loin, the trade don't want ''fat lambs'' the problem is a lot don't have much of a loin, and that's goes for a lot of breeds/sheep. tin hat on!

this absolutely ^ ?:
signet and breeders bred away from fat when it was a dirty word 20+ years ago , couple this with high growth rates most of the texel index is based on , and recipe for disaster (to strong a word) off autumn grass . Big frame rams (which seems to be the fashion at sales ) offspring just wont have the finish at 45kg , There is the right level of fat and it has a lot to do with when a lambs growth starts to slow at the right weight , (why its easier to finish ewe lambs) this is down to your ram breeder and how clued up he is on finished sheep

 

[neilo]

this absolutely ^ ?:
signet and breeders bred away from fat when it was a dirty word 20+ years ago , couple this with high growth rates and recipe for disaster (to strong a word) off autumn grass . Big frame rams (which seems to be the fashion at sales ) offspring just wont have the finish at 45kg , There is the right level of fat and it has a lot to do with when a lambs growth starts to slow at the right weight , (why its easier to finish ewe lambs) this is down to your ram breeder and how clued up he is on finished sheep

Yes, regardless of breed, there has a been a headlong rush towards bigger mature weights. I wouldn't pin any of that blame on Signet/performance recording though, and everything on shows and sales (that's you buyers!) rewarding size above all else.
Beltex, as a breed, are very lean and low mature weight, yet their lambs do finish easily IME. Genetic leaness is far less of an issue than excessive mature weights, meaning lambs are not slowing down & maturing at slaughter weights.

However, if it's any consolation @Man_in_black , everyone I speak to, regardless of breed choice, is saying the same about sheep not fleshing well this year. They need energy to put on condition, and wet grass grown with bugger all sunshine doesn't supply much of it, especially if it's got a bit mature.

 

[Man_in_black]

If your going to go to the trouble of mixing grass you may as well give them some pellets or something. Its dry so slows down their digestion and gets some energy into them so they can utilise the protein in the grass better. They won't eat much if there is enough grass

Yeah, dusted the troughs off & got ton of hogget finisher delivered.

 

[gatepost]

I still have one or ten odd round bales of hay left out, turned the lambs into what is now vg aftermath, have been tucking into the ends of the bales.