"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

onesiedale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Derbyshire
just come back in from putting tomorrows elec fence up, cow track to it, is soil, there are deepish cracks in it, 6/8 ins, it's not clay, and runs alongside our stream, which there, actually has some water in it. The ley, is in two halves, fed as one, so 50/50 dry ley with plantain and clover, the other prg and clover, the dry runs along under a wood, and very sandy, the bottom deep fertile loam. This is x2 grazing over, and there is a huge amount of grass on both pieces, way more than expected. Field was ploughed behind forage rape, fertile bit drilled last spring, the dry bit, rape, tines and autumn sown. Getting quite excited now, things seem to be turning round, at long last.
We made a very conscious effort last year, to leave longer residuals in that field, and it kept going last summer, amount of grass there, 6/7000, on a plate metre ? Av height, good 12 ins, no seed heads, l know if we had mowed it, it would be a biggish swathe, which means more grass out of grazing platform, for silage. It will be interesting to see how they eat that length grass, something some, have never seen ! The why, l think is the outcome of making lots of little changes, from seed variety, different grazing methods, different cultivations, and luck.
The h/rye and vetches are going great guns, agrominist today described it as 'a hell of a crop', few patches poor due to water logging, if we get some warm rain, it will go into super drive, rye is just starting to head, we aim to cut 18 may, which will be followed my maize, our contractor is trialling runner beans with his, l think we will wait and see how he gets on, instead of trying it ourselves, the trials for a seed house, so we can benefit from there spray usage.
Would be nice to see some pictures! ... please
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Really happy with my pensagro gear.

Really like the idea of remote control, be it sms or other.
It's great gear! Ditto, I really only want to work on the remote trigger device as I'll soon shout each mob a pensagro shifter, or even a couple.

What price freedom?

however it would be nice to have a means to shift all mobs when it's lashing down at 3am, moreso as we "put the eggs in several baskets"

one mob is easy to shift
 

jonnyjon

Member
First day mob grazing herbal ley, let the cockups begin :rolleyes:
 

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Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
We've had "little greenhouses" dotted around here and the difference is marked.
There are chicken tractors left around from bird flu lockdown and the green growth under a tarp has convinced me its the cold and wind that has restricted growth here rather than the dry.
Had 2 new mobile polytunnels built for broilers too, and where 1 has been stood prior to be being put into action it's the same.
Well I wish I'd taken a "before" photo now.
Moved the chicken tractors to put some sheep in that paddock. Guess which bit they ate first?
Wonder if it's simply the fact it's a nice lush green, or whether it's actually because it's
20210507_202837.jpg
more nutritious than the winter grown grass around it.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Well I wish I'd taken a "before" photo now.
Moved the chicken tractors to put some sheep in that paddock. Guess which bit they ate first?
Wonder if it's simply the fact it's a nice lush green, or whether it's actually because it's View attachment 959604more nutritious than the winter grown grass around it.
I've been thinking that winter grown grass, actually provides some fibre in the fresh grass growth, but from an animals perspective, lush new grass is the bee's knees.
A lot of the weather this winter, has been coming from a slightly different direction, we were forced to put a solid door on our calve housing, whereas a baffle has been ample for 7 years since building it, the normal ventilation is perfect, so forced means forced, and for the whole of march.
It is very noticeable grass growth in sheltered 'bits', is about twice as much as the unsheltered, and am absolutely certain grass growth has been held back by the cold wind, rather than lack of moisture, growth wise, we are about 2 weeks behind normal, l don't expect the grass heading date will be 2 weeks late.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I've been thinking that winter grown grass, actually provides some fibre in the fresh grass growth, but from an animals perspective, lush new grass is the bee's knees.
A lot of the weather this winter, has been coming from a slightly different direction, we were forced to put a solid door on our calve housing, whereas a baffle has been ample for 7 years since building it, the normal ventilation is perfect, so forced means forced, and for the whole of march.
It is very noticeable grass growth in sheltered 'bits', is about twice as much as the unsheltered, and am absolutely certain grass growth has been held back by the cold wind, rather than lack of moisture, growth wise, we are about 2 weeks behind normal, l don't expect the grass heading date will be 2 weeks late.
As a wise person once said, "it's always too early to start losing" and I fear you'll be right. Heading date is largely governed by photoperiod (day length) and the amount of stress determines the number of tillers that feel the need to reproduce for survival.

Similar story with mushrooms, as soil health improves you get less fruiting because the stress is off them. I imagine your grass this season will be extra stressed from the weather and climatic conditions, on a farm "the show must go on"
 

crashbox

Member
Livestock Farmer
Question for the collective, oldest boy will be 25 in a couple of months time and he is managing the 50ac we've got a couple of miles up the road, atm he is looking after our sheep and his cattle ( cattle are his wages)
I feel like it's time for him to start learning the financial side of it, he can look after stock ok, i asked if he would like to rent it and he said he would love to.

What is the best way to get him too see
things from a holistic point of view?
If he were to get it now he would probably plough, reseed it fertilize it and use spray.
Father allways let me try things,
Im not going to tell him to farm a certain way, but try and get him to make his own mind up.
I really need to plant a seed in his mind, and let him grow it.
Any suggestions
Holistic approach much more appealing if it is demonstrably better in terms of economic efficiency i.e. if you can make more profit per acre/hour of time invested.

Failure of their existing system was, after all, what drove Gabe Brown to cover cropping, Doug Avery to Lucerne, etc.

From my perspective, if I lived on the UK West Coast and could grow ryegrass for fun, I may have a different attitude, i.e. focus on traditional rotational grazing + nitrogen.

It is fantastic that it also fits with my views on climate change, environmental conservation, but ultimately it must also provide a living!

Good luck with it.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
As a wise person once said, "it's always too early to start losing" and I fear you'll be right. Heading date is largely governed by photoperiod (day length) and the amount of stress determines the number of tillers that feel the need to reproduce for survival.

Similar story with mushrooms, as soil health improves you get less fruiting because the stress is off them. I imagine your grass this season will be extra stressed from the weather and climatic conditions, on a farm "the show must go on"
l read an article about fruit trees and berried shrubs, saying that after a stress, ie drought, the plants have produced more berries/fruit in the following season, (berries and fruit production, is 'set' the previous year) as a response to that stress. @Kiwi Pete has given me another reason why our grass is thicker this year, it's sent up more leaf's, in response to 3 years stress :rolleyes: :scratchhead::sneaky:
 

crashbox

Member
Livestock Farmer
Grand job @jonnyjon only way to start is to give it a crack.
I have the same issue, first year here and trialling mob grazing on one field, not used to seeing so much "waste"...!
Gabe Brown presentation he said he aims for the cattle to only eat one third of the cover crops, and trample two thirds back into the land to feed the soil.
Struggling to justify how I can afford to do this with my herbal leys, as I need all the grass I can get right now!
For mob grazing, I have heard you need upwards of 100,000 pounds per acre stocking rate (approx. 75 x 600kg cattle) to start to get the trampling effect, which again I am still struggling to get my head round. Have heard Neil Dennis (Canada) uses stocking rate over 1000,000 (yes one million!) pounds per acre, with multiple daily shifts.
May be worth a quick calculation to see what your rate is.

Good luck with it all, would be great to hear any lessons learnt.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Holistic approach much more appealing if it is demonstrably better in terms of economic efficiency i.e. if you can make more profit per acre/hour of time invested.

Failure of their existing system was, after all, what drove Gabe Brown to cover cropping, Doug Avery to Lucerne, etc.

From my perspective, if I lived on the UK West Coast and could grow ryegrass for fun, I may have a different attitude, i.e. focus on traditional rotational grazing + nitrogen.

It is fantastic that it also fits with my views on climate change, environmental conservation, but ultimately it must also provide a living!

Good luck with it.
interesting to point out that failure of existing system, drives you to another, basically what happened for us, we could have gone down a different route, only luck we went with this one, really wasn't sure about this thread, in the beginning, the title 'holistic', meant 'bunny huggers' in my initial thought. Now have a different opinion, but wonder how many other farmers have been put off, by the words, regenerative, or holistic. Would be interesting to know how 'others' decided to go along this route.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Grand job @jonnyjon only way to start is to give it a crack.
I have the same issue, first year here and trialling mob grazing on one field, not used to seeing so much "waste"...!
Gabe Brown presentation he said he aims for the cattle to only eat one third of the cover crops, and trample two thirds back into the land to feed the soil.
Struggling to justify how I can afford to do this with my herbal leys, as I need all the grass I can get right now!
For mob grazing, I have heard you need upwards of 100,000 pounds per acre stocking rate (approx. 75 x 600kg cattle) to start to get the trampling effect, which again I am still struggling to get my head round. Have heard Neil Dennis (Canada) uses stocking rate over 1000,000 (yes one million!) pounds per acre, with multiple daily shifts.
May be worth a quick calculation to see what your rate is.

Good luck with it all, would be great to hear any lessons learnt.
bit dependant on amount of grass, but fag packet calculation, the total weight of our grazing cows, excluding dry stock, is 85250kg, putting them at 550kg, they would be getting a bit under an acre per feed, someone cleverer than me, can work the 'ideal' out, av 25litres of milk/day, getting the 'right' amount of grass, without leaving to much, or grazing to tight, is a experience only, difficult calculation, we don't do to badly.
Another fag packet calculation is 85250kg at £2/kilo barren, live weight is £170,500, a sobering thought. Or, £7.50 milk/day, x 155, is £1123 value/bulk tank. Really doesn't pay to start playing with the calculator, sometimes !
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
l read an article about fruit trees and berried shrubs, saying that after a stress, ie drought, the plants have produced more berries/fruit in the following season, (berries and fruit production, is 'set' the previous year) as a response to that stress. @Kiwi Pete has given me another reason why our grass is thicker this year, it's sent up more leaf's, in response to 3 years stress :rolleyes: :scratchhead::sneaky:
We've historically tended to do the same,

eg "the baby boom"
eg the odd desire to get a leg-over after attending a funeral

put up a few more tillers just in case
 
reguarding your chicken tractor recovies being eaten first - i find where the bale unrollings get hammered down too. better quality ground/soil/grass - not quite sure how to manage those spots better - maybe fenced out for a rotation might happen.
grass looking tight on fields that are coming up for 2nd rotation .. ive got a feeling i might have to target a few sacrifice areas which may not have fully recovered if we dont heat up a bit.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Holistic approach much more appealing if it is demonstrably better in terms of economic efficiency i.e. if you can make more profit per acre/hour of time invested.

Failure of their existing system was, after all, what drove Gabe Brown to cover cropping, Doug Avery to Lucerne, etc.

From my perspective, if I lived on the UK West Coast and could grow ryegrass for fun, I may have a different attitude, i.e. focus on traditional rotational grazing + nitrogen.

It is fantastic that it also fits with my views on climate change, environmental conservation, but ultimately it must also provide a living!

Good luck with it.
I fully expect an artificial fertiliser tax at some point. Either that or using it will disqualify you from agri-environment schemes.

After CH4 (which is a contrived issue anyway in UK ruminant farming) the next biggest climate impact of UK ag is nitrogen fertilisers.
 

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