Or selling younger lambs than before? Selling earlier in the year or lambing later maybe
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
A few photos for you - Im beginning to start widening up my paddocks now - as i want to start getting the lambs rally fattened and im thinking ive been too stingy (due to not weaning)couple of pics also showing that the was our silage field of 70 odd days ago - its recovered but is pretty spares and short in places (im guessing compaction related) And a pic of our new ladies - 20 odd Lleyns from near Hellsmouth/ Lleyn peninsula. Their a jumpy skittish lot who are dog handled - so will be fun training them to the eleccy fence.
Patchy grass in places - 63 days rest since Silage cut.
somthing has been got - one end of tomorrows paddock./
the new ladies...
Patchy grass in places - 63 days rest since Silage cut.
somthing has been got - one end of tomorrows paddock./
the new ladies...
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ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
I suck at uploading photos - sorry.
Ram wise we run two -A Beltex for the terminal sire (this is his last year as hes now really showing his age) and a LLeyn for the maternal - ours keeled over earlier in the year but was his last year with us anyways - new whippersnapper coming. Im hoping that will rejuvinate the flock weights.
Ram wise we run two -A Beltex for the terminal sire (this is his last year as hes now really showing his age) and a LLeyn for the maternal - ours keeled over earlier in the year but was his last year with us anyways - new whippersnapper coming. Im hoping that will rejuvinate the flock weights.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
This is a good one too:
https://www.beefmagazine.com/blog/what-good-grazing-management
"• Cut overhead. If it rusts, rots, or depreciates, strive to have as little of it as possible. Think of ways to function with less labor, facilities and equipment. These decisions are often more emotional than rational."
- Location
- West Yorkshire
QUOTE="Karliboy, post: 5359116, member: 82218"]It’s not holistic I know,but I’m getting really short on grass so I thought I’d split this field into smaller paddocks approx quarter acre in the hope that by back fencing off, that what little rain we are getting may help bring some life back into it as everything has gone to seed anyway so stalled growing.
I’ve never done back fencing before so it will be interesting to see what happens also.
Everything’s had a splash off fert plus what’s still probably available in the ground also.
Would it be beneficial to go around each paddock once cleared with a dressing of lime now that I have some in stock.
View attachment 701130 View attachment 701128
Well it’s 5 weeks since I’ve been through this field where I used back fencing for the first time.
Thankfully we had some rain since then and covers have come back good so I’m thinking of going around again starting this week but in smaller areas
Afterwards as I finish a fields as i go through them all again I’m thinking of some over-seeding with a Cotswolds herb mix or something similar with some grasses in as well just to add some variety to these old lays as there is very little/no clover etc in them and in the bottom the sward is very open. Then nibble top of again in 4 weeks. Then again end of October before stock come inside for winter.
Would this be a good idea as ground temps normally hold up well around here as I’m fairly sheltered.
I have lime to go on as well hopefully behind cattle as they move along to correct ph.
I’ve never done back fencing before so it will be interesting to see what happens also.
Everything’s had a splash off fert plus what’s still probably available in the ground also.
Would it be beneficial to go around each paddock once cleared with a dressing of lime now that I have some in stock.
View attachment 701130 View attachment 701128
Well it’s 5 weeks since I’ve been through this field where I used back fencing for the first time.
Thankfully we had some rain since then and covers have come back good so I’m thinking of going around again starting this week but in smaller areas
Afterwards as I finish a fields as i go through them all again I’m thinking of some over-seeding with a Cotswolds herb mix or something similar with some grasses in as well just to add some variety to these old lays as there is very little/no clover etc in them and in the bottom the sward is very open. Then nibble top of again in 4 weeks. Then again end of October before stock come inside for winter.
Would this be a good idea as ground temps normally hold up well around here as I’m fairly sheltered.
I have lime to go on as well hopefully behind cattle as they move along to correct ph.
Being naughty again...
Following on from decent establishment of Forage rape mintilled into arable stubble, I'm putting in some forage rye, hopefully to stick dry cows on. Its been something that i've wanted to try for a while, but will use it to replace missing silage this year. If it goes well i am hoping to feed more cows off less silage over winter, with the cows out during the day, saving straw, diesel, plastic and a significant amount of time.
Hopefully I can follow this by scratching forage rape into the stubble after taking a silage cut off it in june/july.
Following on from decent establishment of Forage rape mintilled into arable stubble, I'm putting in some forage rye, hopefully to stick dry cows on. Its been something that i've wanted to try for a while, but will use it to replace missing silage this year. If it goes well i am hoping to feed more cows off less silage over winter, with the cows out during the day, saving straw, diesel, plastic and a significant amount of time.
Hopefully I can follow this by scratching forage rape into the stubble after taking a silage cut off it in june/july.
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
@Agrispeed sounds like a good bit of practical research.
@Karliboy that looks cracking
Im just beginning to wrap my head around the key part of the closed season grazing plan - because im hoping to increase my move time to 3 days (or more ?) from their current daily moves
to allow me to get on with forestry. and the concept of measuring the whole land then dividing it for 3 rounds to take that 180 days.... is it best to give them exact paddocks or to use everything? ie i can cover 80% of the fields and could leave one field untouched vs. light topping more ground..? thoughts/opinions/experances please.
@Karliboy that looks cracking
Im just beginning to wrap my head around the key part of the closed season grazing plan - because im hoping to increase my move time to 3 days (or more ?) from their current daily moves
to allow me to get on with forestry. and the concept of measuring the whole land then dividing it for 3 rounds to take that 180 days.... is it best to give them exact paddocks or to use everything? ie i can cover 80% of the fields and could leave one field untouched vs. light topping more ground..? thoughts/opinions/experances please.
To be honest in my experience if you're checking stock daily, you might as well drop a fence - If you set up several breaks ahead of schedule you can do it in seconds - I move my youngstock on 24hr breaks but set up 6-8 days worth at a time and it takes less than an half an hour.
- Location
- West Yorkshire
I’m same as you. To be fair I’ve only just started playing around this summer with the whole back fence process as my fields are only a max of 2.5 acres down to 0.5 acre
Normally in a year my fields would get this treatment
Mucked (plenty of it through winter until mid/late feb
A half measure of Fert 50kg/ acre mid April
End of April eaten off
Shut up then mow a reasonable crop normally end off May. 7/8 bales per acre
Eat around sides.
Fert at 50% and shut up.
Cut around end July early August 5/6 bales per acre.
Eat around sides again.
Once out off the meadows they go on really rough steep pp which I’m trying my best to improve. But when you’re short on grass like this year it’s hard work to improve at a fast rate thankfully the dry weather has let me get loads of muck on just need a dry spell for the lime now.
Then sometimes cut again but all depends on the year. Normally strip graze it twice then free acces until early November when stock come inside.
My biggest problem is the weather normally here as it’s predominantly damp /wet so harvest can vary in quality as all land is very steep for baleing
I’m hoping to get more out off it before long as my ph is out so I’m on with that at the moment.
This year as I’m south facing it’s been tortured by the sun.
Eaten then mown in late May. Then was shut up for 10 weeks. Until early August which is when the first pics are from. Not a lot on it.
Where I am I’m starting to think it’s going to be better to buy my winter keep in instead of make my own. And eat and move sooner And keep more cattle
It’s amazing that when I was a child 35 years plus ago the farm kept 30 cattle plus calves and grew it’s on fodder
(One day maybe I can get back there. )
But that was the last time it got lime too.
Now I’ve 20 cattle fair enough they are a lump bigger and eat more but I can’t grow enough myself To keep them
Grandpa and dad became to resilient on Fert for the last 25. It’s only since I’ve read and starting to understand this thread that I have a little vision of the direction I need to be heading hopefully.
I’ve got much respect for @Kiwi Pete and others too. (Too many to mention) with what he’s doing down under and starting this thread and sharing so much information.
If I can get to 25% of where he’s at I’ll be a happy farmer.
Cheers karl
Normally in a year my fields would get this treatment
Mucked (plenty of it through winter until mid/late feb
A half measure of Fert 50kg/ acre mid April
End of April eaten off
Shut up then mow a reasonable crop normally end off May. 7/8 bales per acre
Eat around sides.
Fert at 50% and shut up.
Cut around end July early August 5/6 bales per acre.
Eat around sides again.
Once out off the meadows they go on really rough steep pp which I’m trying my best to improve. But when you’re short on grass like this year it’s hard work to improve at a fast rate thankfully the dry weather has let me get loads of muck on just need a dry spell for the lime now.
Then sometimes cut again but all depends on the year. Normally strip graze it twice then free acces until early November when stock come inside.
My biggest problem is the weather normally here as it’s predominantly damp /wet so harvest can vary in quality as all land is very steep for baleing
I’m hoping to get more out off it before long as my ph is out so I’m on with that at the moment.
This year as I’m south facing it’s been tortured by the sun.
Eaten then mown in late May. Then was shut up for 10 weeks. Until early August which is when the first pics are from. Not a lot on it.
Where I am I’m starting to think it’s going to be better to buy my winter keep in instead of make my own. And eat and move sooner And keep more cattle
It’s amazing that when I was a child 35 years plus ago the farm kept 30 cattle plus calves and grew it’s on fodder
(One day maybe I can get back there. )
But that was the last time it got lime too.
Now I’ve 20 cattle fair enough they are a lump bigger and eat more but I can’t grow enough myself To keep them
Grandpa and dad became to resilient on Fert for the last 25. It’s only since I’ve read and starting to understand this thread that I have a little vision of the direction I need to be heading hopefully.
I’ve got much respect for @Kiwi Pete and others too. (Too many to mention) with what he’s doing down under and starting this thread and sharing so much information.
If I can get to 25% of where he’s at I’ll be a happy farmer.
Cheers karl
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
id love that but atm im tight on fences - need to get a few more tbh as its a hassle atm - each fence for me is 1 reel........not 3 reels. so its taking 15-30mins depending on the awkwardness of the fence layout.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I found this quite interesting, (even though that's what we do) to see the systems described through the eyes of someone else
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/all-winter-grazing.95114/
Obviously it takes as much experience as guesswork to get it "right" but it is difficult to get it badly wrong (unless you want it to fail, so you can say it doesn't work)
The planning of course is slightly dependent on growth - by the sea it is mild and so I can get away with a much shorter interval between grazings, having biologically active soils really helps too.
I could stay on a 35 - 40 day round all year and just adjust stocking pressure through numbers..
But winter is the only part of the year that I am strict on daily allocations, for the reasons that:
it is when they will reliably make more mess, hence moving them daily
they will develop a scarcity mentality and learn to poke out/under fences when the grass is shorter
It's when their stress and health is under greatest pressure so I need to see them all every day, especially if they aren't mine or pregnant.
I did give 400 hoggs a 2 day break and can still see where that was, 7 weeks later. The best scenario for us here in the wet season is to subdivide into square cells and move daily, everything else is worse in terms of mess.
Compaction/mess/pugging always seems to be blamed on rain and animal numbers, but really it is time.
That's just my own context Shoota, if you have more elevated areas and scope then you'd get away with not moving them as frequently as that.
A plan is a great thing eg. you can graze out your best sheltered lambing paddocks at a suitable time, and then they'll be recovered well with plenty of tucker.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Cheers
I think we are on the upward spiral here, it probably is early enough days to see which side is correct - in some people's eyes we are simply mining the topsoil harder than the FFF farmers (Fert is the answer, f**k the costs, f**k the low returns)
...but it seems to be getting markedly better year by year, even the old owner of the farm (who began the good work) said he couldn't get the grass to grow the way it does for me - it's simply subdidvision and trampling, instead of trying to convert every piece of greenery into money, as he did
I found the link that Roy put up, of the BEAMs approach and the Johnson-Su compost, really best describes what we are seeing here in terms of productivity increases - but it looks much different to what's over the fence, and I'm not surrounded by "poor" farmers by any stretch.
Soil fungii are the most delicate of all, and they used to take the most time to encourage - so I'm intrigued to see what will happen when I start throwing my 'activated' compost about.
It's not necessary to have huge amounts of things, as long as diversity is encouraged, and I think that's where health comes from:
half a ton of seaweed per hundred acres is really minute compared to tons of inputs, but the leverage is immense.
Just like the first thousand bucks I invested 20 years ago... it's now paying me back several thousand per week... but if I hadn't, it wouldn't be!
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Have you got anything together yet, as far as this goes @Farmer Roy ??
Just looking at the pile of
I scraped off my sloping floor and wondering if this is the solution for the straight poo - the cattle shift it back towards a nib wall and then out the end, but I gave it a help with the tractor yesterday.The bedding has got too dry now to compost much further without adding water, so I'll dung it out soon down to clean chips.
@hendrebc helped me arrive at a solution to the cattle tracking muck over the nib wall onto the compost - going to make an extra barrier with concrete sleepers to see if we can create a smaller gap for them to get on and off the concrete.
bulls have done a good job of scraping the dry poo out from under the rails though.
It's very dry but just wondering how it would compare from going out in a heap, to going into those nice little cylinders.
awkward
Member
- Location
- kerry ireland
I was thinking how to set up a su digester here and wondered do I need to add the irrigator here as we get plenty of rain . or might that be too much moisture and damage the activity within.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
I’m no expert, but the one’s Ive read say that if you do the grazing right- move evry day, back fence and vary the time of year the animals visit a particular piece of ground , you will encourage the seeds already present in the soil to emerge. In 20 years of doing this , sometimes properly and other times not, I find different plants in my pastures each year alongside the dominant ones. It also helps to feed a bit of 1st cut, seedy hay as the animals go around and they will spread seed for you for free.
By the way, your fields looks great- I guess rhe backfencing paid off. Nothing wrong with really small paddocks as long as there is enough feed there or elsewhere. You’ll get alot of trampling which, if its a bit damp ,will do wonders for the soil critters.
Its funny how much you learn in a dry year simply because you have to. When we had a dry summer a few years ago I invested in a couple of miles of electric twine and learned mob grazing on the fly. The rain came in the autumn and with my careful husbandry the pastues were all set to take off - I grazed ( with supplementation) till mid December that year- well into the freezing temps and have never looked back.I hope your experience is as positive.
The thing that helped me the most in that dry year was a grazing chart( free from the www. grass whisperer Troy Bishopp) so that I could plan in advance where everyone should be as well as where they had been. Previously I had kept it in my head but when there wasn’t much room for error I needed more accuracy.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
Have you heard of Kit Pharo in Colorado. He is the owner of Pharo Cattle Company and has put out a newletter for 20 years or so and he also has a weekly email. It’s all about easy keeping, grass fed small framed cattle. He says you can keep more animals per acre and that’s where the profit lies. Not pounds per acre, cows, hence calves per acre. He is worth a read.
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
@Crofter64 do you have a link for that..
Well my new Ewes have found the electric fence a few times - so looks hopeful for them joining the flock in a few days.
and as such ive been out remeasuring forage and toting up the flock weights to see the paddock sizes.
and as such i have a question..
I have one field with cracking grass and a good 1500kgdm ish. (available, not inc residual) long in places with 4-5 leaves etc,.
and one field with shorter (but still recovered grass) with about 30-40% clover in it again with 1000kgdm ish..
in your opinion would it be better to flush the ewes in the clover? - basically ill move the flock with lambs into 1 field then the other (before striping out the lambs) over the next few weeks and am thinking which might be better for the ewes pre tup.
Well my new Ewes have found the electric fence a few times - so looks hopeful for them joining the flock in a few days.
and as such ive been out remeasuring forage and toting up the flock weights to see the paddock sizes.
and as such i have a question..
I have one field with cracking grass and a good 1500kgdm ish. (available, not inc residual) long in places with 4-5 leaves etc,.
and one field with shorter (but still recovered grass) with about 30-40% clover in it again with 1000kgdm ish..
in your opinion would it be better to flush the ewes in the clover? - basically ill move the flock with lambs into 1 field then the other (before striping out the lambs) over the next few weeks and am thinking which might be better for the ewes pre tup.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
@ShooTa : www. pharocattlecompany.com - if you go to the contact page you will see a tab that says newsletter archive and lets you sign up for their weekly email as well.
As for your other question- not sure of the answer. Here I would probably use the better field first in the hopes that the lesser one has time to catch up. The lambs would benefit as well and as for flushing the ewes , I imagine that good feed helps anytime from now on.
BTW - my bestlambing% year was the year after the drought. I guess the quality of the hay was extra good from concentration of nutrients and no mould. I had mostly triplets and a few twins. A bit like @Kiwi Pete is having this year.
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