"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[holwellcourtfarm]

Out of interest, what's everyone's stocking rate? Not stock density. For example we are farming around 70 acres and have 42 animals, 25 fully grown and the others of various ages. Slightly top heavy as we are trying to expand the breeding herd and there's a lot of maidens in there.
Our stock density in the main herd of 35 has been between 17 and 200 ton/ha.
Interested as it helps me work out what we should get to in order to keep a steady supply of winter feed standing in front of them come winter.
I realize that some of you destock at certain times, so please give your highest and lowest numbers as a guide.

Until we sold the cows last winter we were running at 32 continental type cows plus bull and calves on a gracing platform of 42 acres.

 

[Henarar]

I don't even know how many acres we use in all and some of it is all year round, some of it is just summer keep and some is just odd times during the year, working it out wouldn't be easy

 

[som farmer]

Until we sold the cows last winter we were running at 32 continental type cows plus bull and calves on a gracing platform of 42 acres.

we stick to the now, very old yardstick, cow/acre, then work back from that, for us, weather can be the biggest influence on that, is there enough grass to feed them
Even though cow size/weight, has altered over 'system changes', that has remained a fairly good measure, a 550kg grazing cow, probably eats the same, or more, grass, than a 650 kg hol cow, because of how much concentrate is fed, more to the hol, and less to the grazer.
Interesting thought though, we took on extra land this year, so our weight/acre, has come down to 450kg/acre approx, and the fodder stocks are rising rapidly, how much extra grass, would another 100kg/ac have eaten ? This year, it's all about getting the sheds full of fodder, make as much as we can, to buffer the chances of another dry summer, l don't mind an odd one, but not 2+ in a row, the old saying, ' a rick of hay, will always pay the rent, of the ground, it's stood on', is about 110% correct.
Going forward, that extra ground, 56 acres, presents challenges/ problems, what do we do with it ? This yr it's fill the barns, next yr, a different outlook. We have no intention of increasing the dairy, the opposite in fact, we would/will lose about 40, they will be the crap end, which should mean, av milk/cow, will increase, so should we work our stocking rate in, kg/milk/acre ? The other choices are, reduce fert use, increase young stock, to produce store cattle, or a bit of both, 6month TB test, this month, might give us no choice! other than to keep the beef calves.
So, next year, with other things going on, 2022, should be a very interesting year, lots of choices for us, hopefully mainly positive, but, life, like farming, is never certain, future wise.

 

[Woolless]

I won't do that because when the new stuff or part of it starts to die out I want enough of the old to fill the gap,
Never sprayed off a field here before reeseeding

Shouldn't need to either, maybe at a push spot spray docks etc.

That's interesting. I took this approach to a reseed this spring, previously plantain and clover which the old grasses had largely reclaimed. Grazed fairly tight (twice about ten days apart) then power harrowed, rolled, drilled with annual clovers and IRG and rolled again. Got a shower of rain shortly afterwards but May was a cold dry month and it took ages to get going.

It's lovely stuff in patches now but the old grass has managed to get away again in places and headed, plus the usual thistles and fat hen . The Hampshire x lambs are in currently to take the cream of it but I think it might need topped to get the best out of it later on. On the plus side, I think it might make decent grazing early next spring for my 12 (count 'em) yearling cattle and maybe in-lamb ewes.

Anything I could have done differently?

 

[Sharpy]

That's interesting. I took this approach to a reseed this spring, previously plantain and clover which the old grasses had largely reclaimed. Grazed fairly tight (twice about ten days apart) then power harrowed, rolled, drilled with annual clovers and IRG and rolled again. Got a shower of rain shortly afterwards but May was a cold dry month and it took ages to get going.

It's lovely stuff in patches now but the old grass has managed to get away again in places and headed, plus the usual thistles and fat hen . The Hampshire x lambs are in currently to take the cream of it but I think it might need topped to get the best out of it later on. On the plus side, I think it might make decent grazing early next spring for my 12 (count 'em) yearling cattle and maybe in-lamb ewes.

Anything I could have done differently?

Ploughed it?

 

[Henarar]

That's interesting. I took this approach to a reseed this spring, previously plantain and clover which the old grasses had largely reclaimed. Grazed fairly tight (twice about ten days apart) then power harrowed, rolled, drilled with annual clovers and IRG and rolled again. Got a shower of rain shortly afterwards but May was a cold dry month and it took ages to get going.

It's lovely stuff in patches now but the old grass has managed to get away again in places and headed, plus the usual thistles and fat hen . The Hampshire x lambs are in currently to take the cream of it but I think it might need topped to get the best out of it later on. On the plus side, I think it might make decent grazing early next spring for my 12 (count 'em) yearling cattle and maybe in-lamb ewes.

Anything I could have done differently?

Organised the weather better

Ploughed it?

Should have said I normally do plough it as normally the only reason I reeseed is because it needs leveling out,
Some parts here are prone to the land moving underneath (greensand) and the best way to sort it is to plough then powerharrow all ways to get more flowing humps and holes if that makes sense

 

[Woolless]

Ploughed it?

Organised the weather better

Should have said I normally do plough it as normally the only reason I reeseed is because it needs leveling out,
Some parts here are prone to the land moving underneath (greensand) and the best way to sort it is to plough then powerharrow all ways to get more flowing humps and holes if that makes sense

I suppose so but just hoping to do it with no spray and a 'min till' approach. Maybe been listening too much to these bloody yoghurt knitters on here . If the weather had been better, might have got away with it. I was quite pleased with the job the contractor's power harrow made. Perhaps an overseeding approach is better? Reseeding does seem to present weeds with a big opportunity!

 

[Henarar]

I suppose so but just hoping to do it with no spray and a 'min till' approach. Maybe been listening too much to these bloody yoghurt knitters on here . If the weather had been better, might have got away with it. I was quite pleased with the job the contractor's power harrow made. Perhaps an overseeding approach is better? Reseeding does seem to present weeds with a big opportunity!

We used to have some good results when we had the strip seeder and also some not so good, worked well after it had been cut really low to give it a hard time, or grazed right down with sheep but a lot depends on the weather

 

[Johnny Whiteheads]

Help! My lack of back fence on my outwintering plot has promoted a mass of rushes on the bottom of the hill. I have no mower and only a loan of a tractor so I rolled them last night, any ideas on what I should do now? Am in conversion to Organic and this 15 acre field is away from main farm so is rested from March to November

Update, rushes have stayed down! Now versus then below. Do I need to fertilize now?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Out of interest, what's everyone's stocking rate? Not stock density. For example we are farming around 70 acres and have 42 animals, 25 fully grown and the others of various ages. Slightly top heavy as we are trying to expand the breeding herd and there's a lot of maidens in there.
Our stock density in the main herd of 35 has been between 17 and 200 ton/ha.
Interested as it helps me work out what we should get to in order to keep a steady supply of winter feed standing in front of them come winter.
I realize that some of you destock at certain times, so please give your highest and lowest numbers as a guide.

We have 145 cattle on 100ac

probably ⅔ of that number are smalls so around "a cow to the acre" -- the techno systems have 35 calves per 8ha and there's a dozen cows in the 3.9ha one, so that 70ac has 105 calves (at the moment) and 12 cows.

 

[Crofter64]

Out of interest, what's everyone's stocking rate? Not stock density. For example we are farming around 70 acres and have 42 animals, 25 fully grown and the others of various ages. Slightly top heavy as we are trying to expand the breeding herd and there's a lot of maidens in there.
Our stock density in the main herd of 35 has been between 17 and 200 ton/ha.
Interested as it helps me work out what we should get to in order to keep a steady supply of winter feed standing in front of them come winter.
I realize that some of you destock at certain times, so please give your highest and lowest numbers as a guide.

21 cattle in June( down to 17 now mostly yearlings and older. Calves due late August) and 33 ewes and lambs ( down to 26 now) plus 100 birds on 20 acres. The sheep have been largely working away at the edges but are now on the main paddocks. In mid August I remove the rams lambs and will put the cattle and ewes together to slow the rotation. I’m hoping to avoid hay feeding but If I offer and they eat then I just keep doing it. I figure they understand their needs better than I do.

 

[Johnny Whiteheads]

Out of interest, what's everyone's stocking rate? Not stock density. For example we are farming around 70 acres and have 42 animals, 25 fully grown and the others of various ages. Slightly top heavy as we are trying to expand the breeding herd and there's a lot of maidens in there.
Our stock density in the main herd of 35 has been between 17 and 200 ton/ha.
Interested as it helps me work out what we should get to in order to keep a steady supply of winter feed standing in front of them come winter.
I realize that some of you destock at certain times, so please give your highest and lowest numbers as a guide.

175 acres with 36 livestock units (in Ireland cow =1 LU, 0-6 months= 0.4LU, 6-12 months = 0.6LU). 75% of land is mountain type peat soil so I am considered slightly over stocked!

 

[Boso]

We used to have some good results when we had the strip seeder and also some not so good, worked well after it had been cut really low to give it a hard time, or grazed right down with sheep but a lot depends on the weather

Over here when not using spray to kill the old pp or anything unwanted after seeding, we use oats in the mix. Grows so fast that it will outgrow weeds or the old pp. You graze it or mow it before it goes to seed, by then the new pasture you have sown together with the oats will take over.

Have had a fair bit of succes broadcasting it, in some cases just to prevent all kinds of weeds taking over a certain field where plans were unsure, even the cheapest feed/fodder oats come up quite well.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

175 acres with 36 livestock units (in Ireland cow =1 LU, 0-6 months= 0.4LU, 6-12 months = 0.6LU). 75% of land is mountain type peat soil so I am considered slightly over stocked!

Thanks for that formula. Handy and simple.

based on that we have 74.6 LU on just under 70ac / 2.67LU/ha

and 26LU on 26ac / 2.47LU/ha

we are quite overstocked at that (over winter) but could probably run twice SR that over summer - IF we had winter off - which we probably will do after these heifers go home and our yearlings are finished
That would be a game-changer as we'd be stocked at more like 2.67ha per LU

 

[Samcowman]

One block 25 acres I have 61 R1 Angus dairy bred heifers average about 250kg on. Went on there in April. This is how it’s looking today. It’s in its first year so will be able to carry more next year.

On another block there are 38 cows and spring born calves cows would be about 700kg average on 50 acres permanent pasture which is understocked.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

what a bästard

 

[bendigeidfran]

Out of interest, what's everyone's stocking rate? Not stock density. For example we are farming around 70 acres and have 42 animals, 25 fully grown and the others of various ages. Slightly top heavy as we are trying to expand the breeding herd and there's a lot of maidens in there.
Our stock density in the main herd of 35 has been between 17 and 200 ton/ha.
Interested as it helps me work out what we should get to in order to keep a steady supply of winter feed standing in front of them come winter.
I realize that some of you destock at certain times, so please give your highest and lowest numbers as a guide.

200 65kg ewes and 40 ewe lambs as replacements and 10 450kg cattle over summer on 70 ac.
If i got a pound every time some one said i could keep more id have money burning a hole in my pocket

 

[Henarar]

200 65kg ewes and 40 ewe lambs as replacements and 10 450kg cattle over summer on 70 ac.
If i got a pound every time some one said i could keep more id have money burning a hole in my pocket

OK, different question, would you be any better off keeping more ?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

One block 25 acres I have 61 R1 Angus dairy bred heifers average about 250kg on. Went on there in April. This is how it’s looking today. It’s in its first year so will be able to carry more next year. View attachment 978079View attachment 978078
On another block there are 38 cows and spring born calves cows would be about 700kg average on 50 acres permanent pasture which is understocked.

Presumably their winter feed comes from other land so that's only for the summer grazing? What would that make the overall annual average?

 

[Samcowman]

Presumably their winter feed comes from other land so that's only for the summer grazing? What would that make the overall annual average?

For the cows it would be about 40 acres for their silage. 25 of which I will probably graze in the autumn with them or another group when they come off of the SSSI land to extend the grazing season a bit.
The youngsters are a bit more difficult to work out but running up to this grazing season assuming I just fed them on red clover silage which I have done before but not for these ones. The red clover will has cut 13tonned/acre freshweight between the first 2 cuts so for easy maths if it only does 2 tonne on third cut would use about 9 acres roughly.