"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Farmer Roy]

Shading and senescence make a large difference with lower sunlight, not so much with summer's intense light.
But that's the only flaw with the old saying "grass grows grass" as @Treg pointed out early on.
You can sort of see a similar effect here with forage maturity esp. in dairy operations where the cows are calved down on grass, after a run of frosts and a lot of shading that stockpiled grass in the spring has really lost its goodness, the spring regrowth is too short and immature.... so the cows struggle either with low sugar diets - or low sugar diets

So a prune-back of sorts is a good thing even without the actual dormancy Blaithin describes, in trying to maintain the balance between quality and quantity.
It's still better to have a lot of average food than very little great food.

part of the whole concept behind planned holistic grazing is to keep the pastures in that "sweet spot" of growth, quality & quantity, that doesn't let root reserves get punished, doesn't let too much old, high lignin or oxidised material dominate, while still providing decent quality & optimising plant growth
sounds easy aye



the aim with the grazing management is to always keep it in "phase 2", if possible

the Phases of pasture growth can be quickly determine by cow pats of cattle grazing it
really wet & sloppy - phase 1
really dry & firm - phase 3 +
moist, soft but well formed - about right
in an Australian scenario anyway


it is also why burning was such a popular management tool in "brittle" environments - to remove that dead dry material. In warm season, tropical grasses, this removal ( ideally by trampling rather than excessive fire ) is actually required for long term survival of the grass clumps. eg - massive migrating herds across the African grasslands. I think this formed the basis of a lot of Savory's early observations & work ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The big thing I have learned about grass this year gone is: if you don't keep stressing it out by overgrazing it, it doesn't keep trying to put seedheads up all the time. I was amazed that even though the grass was taller than I was comfortable with/used to seeing, it didn't all turn to rubbish - other than the "improved" stuff that's still high in ryegrass content - and I think that's a major hurdle for grass-farmers to adopting higher covers.

Mature doesn't mean forgotten or rubbish, but the more you stress it, the more it tries to reproduce

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

And take comfort that someone somewhere else has probably worked harder to achieve a worse outcome
...that's IF it goes wrong!

Only probably?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Mature doesn't mean forgotten or rubbish, but the more you stress it, the more it tries to reproduce

That's one of the plant world's basic rules.

Possibly why "weeds" that are used to being sprayed at every turn set seed so readily.

 

[Farmer Roy]

 

[Treg]

I would agree with what @Farmer Roy said it's about finding the " sweet spot "
To achieve the " sweet spot " takes long term planning - if I want sweet grass next year it's no good leaving a mat of grass over the winter, so next year's forage planning starts now or even longer planning for reseeding / overseeding.
I'm finding the cow's are turning their noses up at a couple of fields I didn't top earlier in the summer (to maintain cover) but the fields that I've topped are far to short ( so which is right? )

 

[ShooTa]

^^ well during the growing season the advice i recieved of a certain mr Judy - was fast and open in spring - taking a highcut of the grasses but speed to cover the whole system early, then bunch em up tighter early summer - if any grass has really gotten away save it for drought/late summer but whatever you do graze it alteast once before dormancy. - when grass resumes in autumn start picking up the movement speed around the property to keep the grass growing by just nipping off the tops and leaving as many solar catching leaf surfaces..

then in winter hammer the fields with 3 passes with clear intentions as to where your ending up and still maintaining a drought reserve for bad weather (snow) to take the grass back down - However he didnt say what height - plus he has ft of snow compared to wales' wet rainy mud.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I am facing the "problem" that the grass is longer when I have finished grazing a paddock than when I start - i.e. we rapidly need more stock .
Not only longer but twice as thick.

So that's not a huge issue, at this stage.
(What we will aim to do is shut aside half the area and graze half, and whip some early silage out - I know roughly now how much will last a couple of years, that will save us going silly with livestock numbers: above 1800kg Lwt/ha is too much just yet)

But if we weren't taking silage, I'd use "revolving deferred grazing" (if that makes sense) - take out areas for an extra bit longer and then graze them harder, while the next block gets away. It allows resting but still keeps it "current" - basically how I deal with avoiding internal parasite burdens here

Like doing the Foxtrot it ensures there's cleaner pasture for the little'uns until they either get big or get gone.
And then there's the opportunity for the plants to add to the seedbank and recover and regenerate... but most importantly feed your microbes and such.

That's how I'd look at your mud problem - kickstart your water cycle.
Get a few moos to help with that.
Borrow, beg, or buy......

The thing is, once your stock are so full they can't bend, you only need one wire to hold sheep and cattle in a break.

It's to keep them moving, not hold them back -- the best advice my old man gave me about pasture management.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

The big thing I have learned about grass this year gone is: if you don't keep stressing it out by overgrazing it, it doesn't keep trying to put seedheads up all the time. I was amazed that even though the grass was taller than I was comfortable with/used to seeing, it didn't all turn to rubbish - other than the "improved" stuff that's still high in ryegrass content - and I think that's a major hurdle for grass-farmers to adopting higher covers.

Mature doesn't mean forgotten or rubbish, but the more you stress it, the more it tries to reproduce

This is what struck me about pictures @The Ruminant put up several years ago in the mob grazing thread. May even have been on bff. Tremendous covers but nearly all leaf.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

1 thing I can't get my head around- why does a lawn grow so well? Even if removing the grass, and cutting at least every week, which on the face of it is totally depleting it's (and the soil's) reserves - it seems to grow better than any field
Anything to learn from that?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

1 thing I can't get my head around- why does a lawn grow so well? Even if removing the grass, and cutting at least every week, which on the face of it is totally depleting it's (and the soil's) reserves - it seems to grow better than any field
Anything to learn from that?

Only taking the top off the plant....

And, it's usually not compacted with heavy traffic..... or fed synthetics to put it out of whack.... in fact all you do is take the top off the plant and put the mower away til it has to be done again, if you're anything like me!

(Also, agronomists and suppliers aren't involved in playing science labs with it....)

But that's my opinion, all you do is take some when it needs it

so it's the same as "the right place, at the right time" in grazing terms.
If it needs mown once a week, you do so. If it doesn't need lopped, you don't.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Only taking the top off the plant....

And, it's usually not compacted with heavy traffic..... or fed synthetics to put it out of whack.... in fact all you do is take the top off the plant and put the mower away til it has to be done again, if you're anything like me!

(Also, agronomists and suppliers aren't involved in playing science labs with it....)

But that's my opinion, all you do is take some when it needs it

so it's the same as "the right place, at the right time" in grazing terms.
If it needs mown once a week, you do so. If it doesn't need lopped, you don't.

Except that it's cut shorter, and more regularly, than I'd think would be healthy.
But I guess that 5-10 day (or more!) rest in between is doing a lot of good.

 

[Blaithin]

Esthetics mean that lawns are generally managed better than any pasture. The top third is generally all that is mowed. Yes it is short, but the plant is used to that height. Lawns are also grass species that form thick matts and don’t grow too tall. They don’t require the same litter as bunch grasses as the matting covers the ground.

Yes it’s mowed frequently. But it’s rarely over mowed or stressed. Just the top clipped.

If you see lawns left to get tall and then chopped down, you will see the signs of stress of an overgrazed pasture.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

But you aren't cutting it shorter and shorter each week?
You'd:
1. take it down over time, or
2. you'd have a lorryload of clippings, or
3. you'd just keep buzzing the top off

I know what you mean, it's only short, but it's also green and not tampered with... that's all soils want, constant supply of exudate in return for plant available nutrients.

If you cut your lawn too low in summer, then broadleaf weeds will grow, because you weaken the grass plants, but not the daisies and dandelions.
(If you were a good farmer you'd spray them out, but a holistic / rancher would see the issue for what it is, and adjust their "mower")

And that's why we tend to let the covers rise naturally over summer and then take them back slowly - if we have to - but realise a soft springy lawn that looks like it needs a mow is a better lawn than the one that's brown or bare and needing water. Or air.

 

[Samcowman]

^^ well during the growing season the advice i recieved of a certain mr Judy - was fast and open in spring - taking a highcut of the grasses but speed to cover the whole system early, then bunch em up tighter early summer - if any grass has really gotten away save it for drought/late summer but whatever you do graze it alteast once before dormancy. - when grass resumes in autumn start picking up the movement speed around the property to keep the grass growing by just nipping off the tops and leaving as many solar catching leaf surfaces..

then in winter hammer the fields with 3 passes with clear intentions as to where your ending up and still maintaining a drought reserve for bad weather (snow) to take the grass back down - However he didnt say what height - plus he has ft of snow compared to wales' wet rainy mud.

That roughly how I was planning on developing my rotation next get the cattle out early and shift them daily just nipping a bit out before moving them to the next section. Until I can extend it to 2 days or ideally 3. Will see how it goes it’ll be interesting to see how it works.
With regards to lawns. In the dry spell this summer we didn’t cut our lawn for 6 weeks but Granny still had her gardener cut hers weekly. You can guess which one went brown.

 

[Samcowman]

One thing I’m just trying to get my head around is how to make the rotation long enough early on because you want enough rest between grazings but shifting daily rather than 3 daily??
I’m pretty sure I’m going to have to bring some silage fields into it for the first round but I know senior management won’t like it.

 

[Crofter64]

How many cows? Can always order fly masks.

Pink eye vaccine might help.

There’s times I’ve even been tempted to go do black lines on the faces of my white cows like football players. See if that helps

I took your advice. With the penicillin, eye drops and the mask she has been able to return to the herd. She is due to calve in a month.
BTW- I took this photo after moving the fence. You can see a before and after grazing in the photo. My breaks are very tight because I really want the taller weeds to be knocked down. I am also feeding hay. I am hoping everything bounces back quickly and I can graze again later in the autumn.

 

[ShooTa]

@ aye samcowman - yes but an early graze - something like a 2 X (or more) move per day on them would actually probs make better silage - you could likely reduce fert spreading/muck spreading post cut IF they still want silage - Im trying to take our silage field out of silage rotation into the mian graze so to have proper winter forage grazing. - but yes the higher powers can be unreasonable unless presented with evidence
I wish mine didnt disavow anything of of the internets.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

One thing I’m just trying to get my head around is how to make the rotation long enough early on because you want enough rest between grazings but shifting daily rather than 3 daily??
I’m pretty sure I’m going to have to bring some silage fields into it for the first round but I know senior management won’t like it.

Smaller cells (= more of them = longer rotation) ?

 

[Ukjay]

OK, will put this one out there for any feedback, good or bad - makes no difference as this is an ongoing learning curve for us..

So, we had that bit of warmth for the UK, which has obviously had a knock on to one of the paddocks that was grazed at the same time - to which the paddock is coming back a lot slower than I anticipated, and still shows a fair bit of the dead matter that was left over from our mini warm spell as I did not want to harrow it at this time (see pics taken on 9th September as reference points to track changes):

Now, my plan - is to throw a load of muck over this field (as we have just purchased a vintage land driven muck spreader for our little use), to try and get some organic matter back into this paddock due to the previous neglect, as there is more rain etc now - so thinking this is the right route - but please advise if we are going the wrong direction.

No chems or artificial ferts etc have been used...

Jay