"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

To be honest Pete, I just stand there and wait for animals to start and dung, out of say 30-40 animals that i need to get a sample from, the first 5-7 or so animals that do it and fill my container are the ones done. Its just a pooled sample so I’m not keeping a record of who it is as such, which was probably the source of my original question to @Blaithin . I don’t have a prejudice shall we say in what animals i sample i leave it to whatever dungs first and the decision is made for me as opposed to seeking out the “good looking” animals or the “bad looking” animals.

Perhaps i am doing it wrong and not targeting the poorer looking animals or dirtier animals?

Just make sure you get some good and some not-so-good if that's representative

I've seen so many just "decide" based on a few scoury animals that We Must Treat Everyone when maybe only 15% need looked at and 80% of those are fine - if you want to use less stuff then less squirts is probably friendlier than more squirts can be

 

[Fenwick]

Using both

The kiwitech ones work fine with our blue pipe for the 2 side connections, just mind it is easy to push the pipe too far in which then stops the centre valve working.
Easy to fix (basically undo the oftening connection, pull pipe out and start again.
BUT the central valve connection doesn't work well with our blue pipe as its designed to work with NZ LDPE pipe, if you use blue pipe in the valve, it will connect fine, but when you do the 'twist and pull' move to remove the pipe, the guts of the valve will spring out!
The way round it if using non-kiwitech troughs, is to buy a 8m coil of black pipe from kiwitech and use that for your trough, or if using long lengths of pipe to a trough, just use a foot or two of black pipe on the end you'll connect to the hydrant.
High pressures do make disconnecting quite difficult sometimes- get round this by tipping the trough out then quickly disconnect.


Pipestock plasson quick connects are great, they are 3/4" threaded to fit to what ever pipe size you want.
But just mind that the system is two part, male on the trough side and a female quick connect hydrant.
The weak part is the little hook on the male part, it can snap under high pressures
and cattle playing with it can disconnect the hydrant.
The system also doesn't always seal very well on disconnect if under high pressure.

We use the plasson push pull ones.

They work ok, sometimes they can leak a little after disconect. Our water system is a main line with each arm having a valve so only one arm is working at a time to limit leakage.

The little hook on the trough side does indeed break (1 break this year), and the heifers have snapped two if these trough side pieces at the thread aswell. Total repairs for hree breakages were less than 5 euros.

Plasson now do a 1/4 turn model which is apparently much better. But it means changing all units so that everything us compatible.

All in all I am very happy with the setup.

Perhaps I would prefer the watering points being closer (presently every 50 metres) but that is specific to each persons setup.

 

[exmoor dave]

We use the plasson push pull ones.

They work ok, sometimes they can leak a little after disconect. Our water system is a main line with each arm having a valve so only one arm is working at a time to limit leakage.

The little hook on the trough side does indeed break (1 break this year), and the heifers have snapped two if these trough side pieces at the thread aswell. Total repairs for hree breakages were less than 5 euros.

Plasson now do a 1/4 turn model which is apparently much better. But it means changing all units so that everything us compatible.

All in all I am very happy with the setup.

Perhaps I would prefer the watering points being closer (presently every 50 metres) but that is specific to each persons setup.

Can you get the little hooks as replacement parts?

I keep meaning to ask the supplier
The male part is about £6 here

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Using both

The kiwitech ones work fine with our blue pipe for the 2 side connections, just mind it is easy to push the pipe too far in which then stops the centre valve working.
Easy to fix (basically undo the oftening connection, pull pipe out and start again.
BUT the central valve connection doesn't work well with our blue pipe as its designed to work with NZ LDPE pipe, if you use blue pipe in the valve, it will connect fine, but when you do the 'twist and pull' move to remove the pipe, the guts of the valve will spring out!
The way round it if using non-kiwitech troughs, is to buy a 8m coil of black pipe from kiwitech and use that for your trough, or if using long lengths of pipe to a trough, just use a foot or two of black pipe on the end you'll connect to the hydrant.
High pressures do make disconnecting quite difficult sometimes- get round this by tipping the trough out then quickly disconnect.


Pipestock plasson quick connects are great, they are 3/4" threaded to fit to what ever pipe size you want.
But just mind that the system is two part, male on the trough side and a female quick connect hydrant.
The weak part is the little hook on the male part, it can snap under high pressures
and cattle playing with it can disconnect the hydrant.
The system also doesn't always seal very well on disconnect if under high pressure.

How does the price compare? Maybe I should start exporting black alkathene pipe

I'm in the design phase of our next lane system, basically a blaze through the middle of the northern part of the ranch.

It'll leave 'a proper paddock' at each corner in case we get the urge to race motorbikes or grow houses,
.. and I'm wondering what to do there.
We could just plonk a round concrete trough in the middle or have a connection with a marker post and a buried valve, or lots of things.
But if we aren't going to replace the quad when it finally goes bang, then hydrants could be an idea as well. Is kiwitech a no-brainer if we go that way?

 

[Samcowman]

First season suing the kiwitech ones here and have found them pretty good now I’ve got the hang of them. Before I got the hang of them I was ready to chuck them in the hedge .
As Dave said have to be careful with the side connections on the hydrant as it’s far too easy to push the pipe in too far

 

[Kiwi Pete]

First season suing the kiwitech ones here and have found them pretty good now I’ve got the hang of them. Before I got the hang of them I was ready to chuck them in the hedge .
As Dave said have to be careful with the side connections on the hydrant as it’s far too easy to push the pipe in too far

Yeah, it's probably worse with the particular pipe we use - it's quite a thin wall for a wee bit extra flow, the downside is it isn't hard to push it past those little lugs and make the valve stick.

Must order some more pipe !!

 

[som farmer]

for water troughs, really worth watching out for them on e'bay, son found a big lot, 15, 10x4x2 and bought them at £66 each, that was a real bargain, but often see others reasonably priced.
If you have any of the old riveted troughs, leaking or not, they can make serious cash, landscape gardening best new thing !

 

[exmoor dave]

How does the price compare? Maybe I should start exporting black alkathene pipe

I'm in the design phase of our next lane system, basically a blaze through the middle of the northern part of the ranch.

It'll leave 'a proper paddock' at each corner in case we get the urge to race motorbikes or grow houses,
.. and I'm wondering what to do there.
We could just plonk a round concrete trough in the middle or have a connection with a marker post and a buried valve, or lots of things.
But if we aren't going to replace the quad when it finally goes bang, then hydrants could be an idea as well. Is kiwitech a no-brainer if we go that way?

Plasson quick connect
£14.40 for the hydrant, but needs what ever pipe fitting as well.... £3-£4 for a cheapo 25mm tee prehaps
Male part, £6, only need one per trough though


Kiwitech tee hydrant £16.60, for 25mm pipe, doesn't need any other fittings but trough needs to be on nz black pipe


Looks like £20 for a 8m coil of LDPE
Don't think you can get LDPE over here.

I think the issue with our MDPE blue pipe is that the wall thickness is slightly thinner, so the pipe can slip over the hydrant valve inner part, so when you twist to disconnect, you twist the whole inside of the valve and it all pops out...... finding the little plastic ring that retains the spring, in long grass is a slight pain

 

[Woolless]

Plasson quick connect
£14.40 for the hydrant, but needs what ever pipe fitting as well.... £3-£4 for a cheapo 25mm tee prehaps
Male part, £6, only need one per trough though


Kiwitech tee hydrant £16.60, for 25mm pipe, doesn't need any other fittings but trough needs to be on nz black pipe


Looks like £20 for a 8m coil of LDPE
Don't think you can get LDPE over here.

I think the issue with our MDPE blue pipe is that the wall thickness is slightly thinner, so the pipe can slip over the hydrant valve inner part, so when you twist to disconnect, you twist the whole inside of the valve and it all pops out...... finding the little plastic ring that retains the spring, in long grass is a slight pain

I'm surprised that someone hasn't stepped in to manufacture UK-friendly fittings for this job. I am using lanes back to water at the minute, which isn't ideal, but wanted to minimise cost initially and don't want the hassle of fittings which aren't quite right. I'm not much of a plumber!

 

[exmoor dave]

I'm surprised that someone hasn't stepped in to manufacture UK-friendly fittings for this job. I am using lanes back to water at the minute, which isn't ideal, but wanted to minimise cost initially and don't want the hassle of fittings which aren't quite right. I'm not much of a plumber!

Drag pipes would be your friend!

I've not got many proper hydrant systems, instead take one hydrant off a existing trough, then pull round your cells,
It can be abit fiddly around the fences and you really need a quad or other vehicle to pull long pipes full of water.
But its cheap because hydrants do add up some cost!

Ideal on short rents too, just roll the pipe up if the ground is lost

 

[Woolless]

Drag pipes would be your friend!

I've not got many proper hydrant systems, instead take one hydrant off a existing trough, then pull round your cells,
It can be abit fiddly around the fences and you really need a quad or other vehicle to pull long pipes full of water.
But its cheap because hydrants do add up some cost!

Ideal on short rents too, just roll the pipe up if the ground is lost

How do you mean drag pipes? As in hosepipes or bigger?

 

[exmoor dave]

How do you mean drag pipes? As in hosepipes or bigger?

No just long lengths of 25mm blue pipe

I've got 4x 300m systems here, pull the trough around, in turn pulls the pipe, you'd be surprised how strong the fittings are!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

How do you mean drag pipes? As in hosepipes or bigger?

I reckon you need much bigger than hosepipe or it won't keep up.
We use 20mm LDPE (the stuff you can't get) as it's really kink-resistant with the thicker softer plastic, and not too heavy. 25mm is almost too much of a good thing, plenty of water but very heavy empty for its flow rating

we're lucky to have a wee bit of fall everywhere so you just disconnect and the pipe empties itself while you shift a fence or move the trough up, empty 20mm ¾ is alright to pull over your shoulder.

I put a loop of rope on the big pipe to tow it with.

 

[crashbox]

Operation mob is on!
25mm PE pipe, black for overland use (not blue).
20mm was 50p/m, 25mm was 62p/m.
So I went for 25mm, more versatile if this job goes wrong!

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Legally, no. It has to be an air gap under the English water byelaws.

In practice it's good enough unless you're inspected...

How about an ibc at the highest point to gravity feed the in field system?

 

[Karliboy]

I reckon you need much bigger than hosepipe or it won't keep up.
We use 20mm LDPE (the stuff you can't get) as it's really kink-resistant with the thicker softer plastic, and not too heavy. 25mm is almost too much of a good thing, plenty of water but very heavy empty for its flow rating

we're lucky to have a wee bit of fall everywhere so you just disconnect and the pipe empties itself while you shift a fence or move the trough up, empty 20mm ¾ is alright to pull over your shoulder.

I put a loop of rope on the big pipe to tow it with.

I’m on hosepipe (up to 70meters of it) that I drag around from strategic points, but I’m also on Mains water pressure so no real filling issues, but I’m also filling a 25 gallon plaster bath with a ballcock every move so there’s never the big demand from cattle all at once as there heads down eating when moved so lots of time to fill.
Even where I use it on the gravity fed supply from ibc I have no real issues but I uped it to 20mm blue for that but it still all has to go through a standard household ballcock (just have to watch out for blockages as it’s all out of a stream with no filters)

 

[Kiwi Pete]

How about an ibc at the highest point to gravity feed the in field system?

Or even as small as a 60 litre plastic drum? It won't need to be a big tank to provide a 12 inch airgap.

It's quite common to see very small plastic tanks in water systems here as pressure-reducing components due to having too much fall within the system - they are maybe 300 litres, cheap enough but more suited to plumbing up with regular tank hardware, and keep the water dark

 

[exmoor dave]

Or even as small as a 60 litre plastic drum? It won't need to be a big tank to provide a 12 inch airgap.

It's quite common to see very small plastic tanks in water systems here as pressure-reducing components due to having too much fall within the system - they are maybe 300 litres, cheap enough but more suited to plumbing up with regular tank hardware, and keep the water dark

I'm using a 210lt blue dairy chem drum for exactly that- feed off a pumped supply straight in to a drop from 800ft down to 300ft!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I'm using a 210lt blue dairy chem drum for exactly that- feed off a pumped supply straight in to a drop from 800ft down to 300ft!

It's worth taking the strain off fittings

I put a little extra in one of our lateral waterlines and laid a loop of it on one of the slopes as "a shock absorber" and it's surprising how much it wriggles around

 

[crashbox]

I’m on hosepipe (up to 70meters of it) that I drag around from strategic points, but I’m also on Mains water pressure so no real filling issues, but I’m also filling a 25 gallon plaster bath with a ballcock every move so there’s never the big demand from cattle all at once as there heads down eating when moved so lots of time to fill.
Even where I use it on the gravity fed supply from ibc I have no real issues but I uped it to 20mm blue for that but it still all has to go through a standard household ballcock (just have to watch out for blockages as it’s all out of a stream with no filters)

Depending on pressure a "low pressure insert" in the ball valve can reduce risk of blockages.