"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Woolless]

CI herd?

Channel Island, I think these were Guernseys IIRC.

 

[som farmer]

channel island, mainly guernseys, another reason we changed, was difficult to get hold of decent bulls, or semen.
I have always liked the guernsey cow, a very efficient grazer/milker. The society took a wrong move somewhere, and stopped breeding cattle, that commercial farmers wanted, plus they were notorious for having johnes. These days, they are making a slow comeback, but the damage was done, and they are miles behind modern cattle, the opposite happened with the jersey breed, they moved, and evolved around farmers requirements, but even so, they carry a lot of johnes.

 

[Crofter64]

rye grasses are a valuable fodder, high quality, and quantity.
But, its always the r/grasses that cause problems, in our rotational grazing, recovery period.
Currently finishing a field, of 2 types of grass, which l have mentioned before, a dry grass mix, and a 'proper' prg mix, a long thin field, with a dry and, very fertile half.
Cows give the final opinion, the dry half, is grazed as tight, as they can, the prg half, is well trampled in, and its bloody annoying.
You can see the difference, in the 2 types, prg has responded to ideal conditions, and had a massive growth spurt, its a mowing stage. The dry mix, is not so thick and lush, made up of other grasses, as well as prg, its much finer, some going to seed, herbs etc, cows demolish it, right down to tight.
We tried to feed the prg off first, with a long feeding 'face' behind elec fence, cows went straight through that, the only time this year, they have gone through a fence. So one can assume, which they preferred.

We have a number of acres in of dry mixes, now, so starting to see a pattern of cow response, there is no doubt about the fact, they like them, they graze them 'properly', and while there doesn't appear to be so much there, as prg, having cut some, for silage this year, they are not far behind the prg, and the grazing 'window' is much longer, than prg.
Rye grasses have their place, high quality/quantity silage, is their ideal. And for bulk standard grazing, they have a their place. On dryer farms, like ours, they are great, when the weather is right, they work. Are they sustainable in the longer term ? Yes, they are, when everything is going correctly, or, predictable, its when things are not going so well, they can let you down.

But, when things don't go, as per normal, they become unreliable, they are difficult to manage/control. Variety of plants, in a simple herbal mix, are very obviously appreciated by stock, and are grazable for longer.
And that sums up, the choices we have, we know what rye grass leys are capable of, been using them for decades, we don't know what diverse leys will do, they are 'new', and that is the problem. There is simply to much to risk, on a 'unknown'.

We really don't know what a diverse ley, will do, for grass growth, quality, animal health, and even fert use, we only have the 'recent' results from those that have changed 'over'. That isn't to say, 'they don't work', the response of many, being cautious, their use will 'creep' up, as time passes. To me, they look right, l would love to see a dairy farm, where only d/leys are present, both for grazing, and silage/hay, to see the results, would it be a healthier herd, of higher yielding profitable cows, or a herd of lower yielding cows. And, to see fert/spray use, those are important figures, because for many, it would be a halfway house, between the two systems.

The answers to your queries are all here, since 1955:

 

[som farmer]

The answers to your queries are all here, since 1955:
View attachment 1038208View attachment 1038209

yes, the only bit l didn't like, was going back to cabless small tractors. Principles are right though, just needs adapting to modern tools. That was from a very different labour time.

 

[som farmer]

first pic, not very clear, was of some prg, and cocksfoot, in a corner where the mower misses, so exactly the same treatment, c/foot is a foot higher. That would be 'wild' c/foot.
second, balsana clover, dd in pp, not overimpressed, where the grass is thicker, you can't see any, perhaps it will come through after mowing, tomorrow. Based on, if you don't try it, you wont know basis. We will keep trying some.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

D day here - destocking day

these little twerps will be easier to feed than the others, but we only have 2 animals less, they are in far better condition than last year's calves so that's a comfort.

the grass has started growing again, we went from dry to wet almost "overnight"

here are the rainfall tallies so far for the year

Jan 25mm
Feb 64mm
March 2mm
April 64mm
May 201mm

soil temp still holding up after a couple of light frosts and a cold S change last weekend brought some snow flurries

odd to think we were whining about it being dry here a month ago but things are growing great - in the meantime

D-day has meant we have switched from a 104 day rotation to 153 days (saving 2 cells per day) which is a dramatic reduction in demand, we will speed up as cover drops over winter, but we'll certainly have better control of it than last springtime.

We'll also have the benefit of a bit more automation as we have invested in a few more wire-lifters from PensAgro, this should cut down the number of trips we need to make out on the ranch during the wet season.

I've been using them for the last couple of weeks (it's dark before and after work) and they literally work "like clockwork"... I've worked out how much they can lift, which is basically every intersection on the place bar 4 (tight HT wire over a crest, is just a bit too much for the alligator clip I attach to the fence

 

[Jonny B88]

D day here - destocking dayView attachment 1038368

these little twerps will be easier to feed than the others, but we only have 2 animals less, they are in far better condition than last year's calves so that's a comfort.View attachment 1038369
the grass has started growing again, we went from dry to wet almost "overnight"

here are the rainfall tallies so far for the year

Jan 25mm
Feb 64mm
March 2mm
April 64mm
May 201mm

soil temp still holding up after a couple of light frosts and a cold S change last weekend brought some snow flurries

odd to think we were whining about it being dry here a month ago but things are growing great - in the meantime View attachment 1038370
D-day has meant we have switched from a 104 day rotation to 153 days (saving 2 cells per day) which is a dramatic reduction in demand, we will speed up as cover drops over winter, but we'll certainly have better control of it than last springtime.

We'll also have the benefit of a bit more automation as we have invested in a few more wire-lifters from PensAgro, this should cut down the number of trips we need to make out on the ranch during the wet season.

I've been using them for the last couple of weeks (it's dark before and after work) and they literally work "like clockwork"... I've worked out how much they can lift, which is basically every intersection on the place bar 4 (tight HT wire over a crest, is just a bit too much for the alligator clip I attach to the fence

Its funny when you look at the rainfall each month you wouldn’t say you’ve been dry at all, but then it all depends when it fell out.

 

[som farmer]

had a lot of rain, this last couple of weeks, but our stream, is dry again, ran for a couple of days only, so, not enough yet.
cutting our pp for silage today, another massive cut, 30 units of N, would have been better off last week, but weather.
our pit, is going to be overfull, usually some 2nd cut goes in there as well, not a chance this yr, and multi cut won't happen. Highest yields we have had, for years, with less than half the fert, even on the grazing ground, its a losing battle to keep it 'right', taken some more out, for hay this time, to steep for silage trailers.
Mind you, l am not complaining, highly delighted in fact, its just that l don't really know why. It should be the other way around, then, do we use more N, to keep the grass going, or not, will the grass run out of steam, by late summer, without N, or does it actually matter ?
Said ages ago, going to be an interesting year, most certainly is, milk at 50ppl..............

 

[Kiwi Pete]

D day here - destocking dayView attachment 1038368

Its funny when you look at the rainfall each month you wouldn’t say you’ve been dry at all, but then it all depends when it fell out.

Funny how it works, really. I think it tells as much about "time" as the physical amount of precipitation?

In this instance, it's 'really only two dry months' - sure it's come on the back of 5 drier warmer years - but it's really the lack of flexibility that creates problems, we got on quite well this year where many found themselves very overstocked

 

[Kiwi Pete]

had a lot of rain, this last couple of weeks, but our stream, is dry again, ran for a couple of days only, so, not enough yet.
cutting our pp for silage today, another massive cut, 30 units of N, would have been better off last week, but weather.
our pit, is going to be overfull, usually some 2nd cut goes in there as well, not a chance this yr, and multi cut won't happen. Highest yields we have had, for years, with less than half the fert, even on the grazing ground, its a losing battle to keep it 'right', taken some more out, for hay this time, to steep for silage trailers.
Mind you, l am not complaining, highly delighted in fact, its just that l don't really know why. It should be the other way around, then, do we use more N, to keep the grass going, or not, will the grass run out of steam, by late summer, without N, or does it actually matter ?
Said ages ago, going to be an interesting year, most certainly is, milk at 50ppl..............

Plants don't need nearly as much N "supplied" as people try to make out.

In fact I'd suggest it's farmers who need it more than the plants do, it is like booze or alcohol addiction in that we seldom see the problem "is all us" but others can see it from where they are.

I would also suggest that "the reason why" is that you aren't creating as many above-ground-problems, if you get above the soil surface sorted out then below the surface gets in line with that.

 

[crashbox]

had a lot of rain, this last couple of weeks, but our stream, is dry again, ran for a couple of days only, so, not enough yet.
cutting our pp for silage today, another massive cut, 30 units of N, would have been better off last week, but weather.
our pit, is going to be overfull, usually some 2nd cut goes in there as well, not a chance this yr, and multi cut won't happen. Highest yields we have had, for years, with less than half the fert, even on the grazing ground, its a losing battle to keep it 'right', taken some more out, for hay this time, to steep for silage trailers.
Mind you, l am not complaining, highly delighted in fact, its just that l don't really know why. It should be the other way around, then, do we use more N, to keep the grass going, or not, will the grass run out of steam, by late summer, without N, or does it actually matter ?
Said ages ago, going to be an interesting year, most certainly is, milk at 50ppl..............

And cake at £500/t...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

7th Feb

26th May

it didn't work out at 120 days because of running an extra mob for 3 weeks, but I get the feeling we're in the ballpark.

 

[som farmer]

And cake at £500/t...

we made a shrewd move, 30 acres of wheat and barely in the ground.
now l accept we should account of that, at sale value, this year things are rather different, and we will cost it, at what it cost us, which, we hope, will be a long way below £500 for cake.
Last year, we did 34 ton barley, growing costs, £100/rolled/ ish, looked at a 10t heap of rolled, and thought, that in cake/blend would have been £3,000.

Not only that, we 'mixed' it with a blend, to make sure it lasted, right through, we also feel, that the milkers performed better, very little crap filler in straight corn, and blend.
And, it gives us options, if weather is bad, w/crop, crimped or grain, the latter two, give us loads of straw as well.

The other advantage, it gives us another option for rotation, and while we are keen on sensible farming, no one has told us how to get rid of weeds ! so, a chance to 'clean' up, is very helpful. Our maize went in, less 2 acres, without ploughing, just tine/disc machine, and a very light p/h, just to smooth off, to stop the drill 'bouncing'. Next year, we will probably strip till it, GPS is quite amazing, way beyond me, l can remember walking behind a steerage hoe, less said the better

As KP says, we must challenge 'normal' practices, we simply do not know what the result of changing things, does, so farmers are over cautious, esp with fert, scares us to think we may not have enough winter grub, we have enough silage, by tonight, to comfortably see the cows through next winter, so the reduction of fert, has made no difference what so ever, in fact, this year the opposite, was it the sulphur that made a difference, no idea.

Our d/d spring barley, isn't over pretty, but the crop is there, and for a first attempt, very satisfying, we will make a few changes, next time, the experience tells. If we accept, we have to really look after our soils, strip till, min-til, d/d and overseeding, all benefit soil structure, And all cheaper than plough/till. Drill man, for the maize, has d/d some maize this year, but wouldn't say where, 'just in case', results will be interesting. Its all reducing the need to plough, which must be good.

 

[Fenwick]

yes, the only bit l didn't like, was going back to cabless small tractors. Principles are right though, just needs adapting to modern tools. That was from a very different labour time.

I quite like the idea of going back to cabless small tractors. Or even no tractor.

I've worked out how much they can lift, which is basically every intersection on the place bar 4 (tight HT wire over a crest, is just a bit too much for the alligator clip I attach to the fence

Change out the alligator clip for a pig tail. Had a few issues until we did that.
I believe Pablo now sells them with pig tails as standard.

 

[som farmer]

cabless tractors were ok, if the weather was right, knock out freezing, snowing, rain, wind and sun, probably perfect for 1 month per year.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

cabless tractors were ok, if the weather was right, knock out freezing, snowing, rain, wind and sun, probably perfect for 1 month per year.

I used to enjoy ours excepting driving rain or snow. A cabless tractor in a hayfield is almost a pleasure.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I used to enjoy ours excepting driving rain or snow. A cabless tractor in a hayfield is almost a pleasure.

Not when the dust is flying and the sun is burning you through your shirt.

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

View attachment 1038227View attachment 1038228
first pic, not very clear, was of some prg, and cocksfoot, in a corner where the mower misses, so exactly the same treatment, c/foot is a foot higher. That would be 'wild' c/foot.
second, balsana clover, dd in pp, not overimpressed, where the grass is thicker, you can't see any, perhaps it will come through after mowing, tomorrow. Based on, if you don't try it, you wont know basis. We will keep trying some.

I doubt balansa likes competition from a pp when establishing. Here it all goes into an annual pasture. There virtually is no pp left on any farm in our district. (think within 150kms). When we did have pp pre the millennium drought in 06, we had issues with quality too. Prg was never dominant enough to last beyond 3 years. White clover would only be seen as a bookend as mid summer was just to hot for it. Majority ended up as cŕap nut grass and passpalum. No milk in either. But that's all we had. Winter was a different story with sub clover and self sown wimera ryegrass.
Now everything is oversown in Autumn with Italian annual ryes and a mix of clover , being sub and either shaftal or balansa. Apart from the night paddocks close to dairy which are just arg. It all remains lush till November when it's finished anyway.

 

[som farmer]

we have taken on ground we are not allowed to plough, l/lord, so very long ley, and pp, just cut it, heavy cut, very pleased, the bit with the balsana in, we have left for hay, getting worried about getting it all in, good job to, its over full, job getting it all in.
So this is year 2, and l think we will overseed some of it, with 'better' grasses, though to be fair, there was a lot there, and at the right stage, but more clover would be better.
With the balsana, we tried it, which is 100% better than ignoring it, we are altering how we farm, and we need to try new ideas, if we don't, we will never know. Perhaps leaving it for hay, might seed itself a bit. But l agree, perhaps not the best place to try it. At home we have no pp, all leys, all bar 1, 4ac field we rent, very shallow soil, with very little clover, it just doesn't grow there ? so we will keep adding clover, all over, all the time, on the rest, and put some in the cake, for those we feed outside.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I quite like the idea of going back to cabless small tractors. Or even no tractor.



Change out the alligator clip for a pig tail. Had a few issues until we did that.
I believe Pablo now sells them with pig tails as standard.

Yes, my wife had a bit of trouble connecting the pigtail to the HT wire, easy with the polywire though. Hence I repurposed some old alligator clips from my now-redundant jumper leads, as a "weakest link" as the HT is different in most ways to polywire.

We will eliminate the polywire in time, but it got us going