"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

Try to put dung on all the silage ground at least every other year. The away land we cut twice gets it every year

Ideal!

Yes it always fascinates me, not necessarily what people do but more how they address these sorts of things,, the thinking behind the actions.

Another semi-related thing is "where do you want the superphosphate put",, some would want it on the less fertile areas (make it grow?) where others would want it where the stock usually graze most (replace what they take?)

 

[Henarar]

Ideal!

Yes it always fascinates me, not necessarily what people do but more how they address these sorts of things,, the thinking behind the actions.

Another semi-related thing is "where do you want the superphosphate put",, some would want it on the less fertile areas (make it grow?) where others would want it where the stock usually graze most (replace what they take?)

When sowing fert I would speed over the bits that grow well anyway and slow down for the other bits.
If I ever sow any more remains to be seen, TBH I was glad when it jumped from around £450/ton to £1000 as I was in two minds as to weather to buy a few bags at £450 but in the end I just spread the two bags of Nitro I had left over the silage land at around 1/2 cwt/acre till it run out, some of it got nothing

It seems like a good grassy spring which is ideal, We were well down the road of using less fert, the price increase is just the final push as its no good to sit and moan about the price of inputs and say that output prices will "have" to rise as no they don't "have" to we have to work round the situation best we can.

 

[Gulli]

Where do you put those nutrients?

Dad cut the same hay paddock every year that I can remember, most all of the fertiliser expenditure went on that 45 acre paddock and then the hay was fed out on all the steeper stuff/ rocky stuff over winter to build soil and waterholding capacity.

What do you guys do, I am assuming the feed will go through the wintering shed and then manure placed on the same type of area, not that you seem to have much in the way of steep/rocky ground?

Or do you apply it to the more productive/hayable areas to recycle it?

The odd bit I'll feed out to the goats on any bare patches but the vast majority gets fed over winter in the shed. We produce mountains of muck so try to cover everything once a year. Depending on time/grass growth I'll spread a light covering once the cattle have finished a paddock from July onwards

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Where do you put those nutrients?

Dad cut the same hay paddock every year that I can remember, most all of the fertiliser expenditure went on that 45 acre paddock and then the hay was fed out on all the steeper stuff/ rocky stuff over winter to build soil and waterholding capacity.

What do you guys do, I am assuming the feed will go through the wintering shed and then manure placed on the same type of area, not that you seem to have much in the way of steep/rocky ground?

Or do you apply it to the more productive/hayable areas to recycle it?

Most farmers I know don't think much about the nutrients they take off land, just the ones they put on

 

[hendrebc]

Where do you put those nutrients?

Dad cut the same hay paddock every year that I can remember, most all of the fertiliser expenditure went on that 45 acre paddock and then the hay was fed out on all the steeper stuff/ rocky stuff over winter to build soil and waterholding capacity.

What do you guys do, I am assuming the feed will go through the wintering shed and then manure placed on the same type of area, not that you seem to have much in the way of steep/rocky ground?

Or do you apply it to the more productive/hayable areas to recycle it?

I do all my hay fields once every year and try and put muck on however many grazing fields I can till it runs out. Not that many really can only do a few fields so try and do them in rotation so they mostly all get at some time apart from the ones that are too steep to drive on.
Thats one thing that's not so good about outwintering cows you can't target the muck so easily. Some of the fields I'd like to muck more are too wet to winter cattle in but I am putting a lot of muck on the steep fields over winter with the cows and unrolling bales on them and it seems to be working well.
There is quite a bit less to spread with a tractor when the cows spread it themselves as well which is good.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Most farmers I know don't think much about the nutrients they take off land, just the ones they put on

Not sure that's very fair

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Most farmers I know don't think much about the nutrients they take off land, just the ones they put on

Yep, that's why we went the other way, really.

I don't really like the inputs, so reduced the output.

That, and it's a bit of a busted flush when it comes to transforming our financial position, we aren't big enough to be silly

 

[Kiwi Pete]

@holwellcourtfarm

remember walking this bit, a few years back?

it's not grey anymore!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Our current feed demand is 26-28kgDM/ha depending on how generous I'm feeling

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Not sure that's very fair

I would like to think so but that's the impression I get.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I would like to think so but that's the impression I get.

I know plenty that use a lot of fert, but would talk in terms of it being needed to replace that taken off.
Now obviously we would look at things differently, and the whole "wasting/trampling grass" thing would raise an eyebrow at the very least, but there is common ground.

You see it on here, some take the approach of making statements they know will be hard for many to accept (we perhaps all do it at times to stir or create discussion) whilst it is possible to "start where someone is at" and lead them to a different understanding.

 

[som farmer]

as dairy farmers, we happen to fill a massive hole, every year, with slurry, but l think it is only recently, that l have realised, exactly how potent it is, FYM have used that selectively for years, but slurry sort of, halfway between useful, and a pain in the butt.
Reading the direct driller mag, 'things' have got me thinking on a different course, @Henarar like us, more grass, for less fert, which is the opposite of expectation.
But, if we farm to look after our soils, some of ours have now been treated, 'sympathetically' for several years, certainly not ploughed, so, if they have improved in that time, which is probable, then by applying slurry/FYM, you are not so much feeding the plant 'fert', you are feeding the soil, and its bugs etc, it is them that create the correct environment, for legumes to max N, and allow the plant to extend its root system, to max its intake, an ever increasing circle, increasing soil structure, increasing fertility etc.
Not explaining over well, but if we stop thinking of shite feeding the plant leaf, and look at it from feeding the soil life, and thus creating the better conditions, for the plant, to utilise. Pretty well all the writers in the dd, experienced same/higher yields, which they would, writing for that mag.
But, it went further than that, some trials were showing a sizable increase, in the nutritional value, of food, v same crops, managed 'conventionally', side by side, on neighbouring farms, didn't see the difference v organic though. To me, it made me think of a circle, where if you get the correct conditions, that circle just keeps growing, improving all the time, which to be fair, is what we are seeing, without realising the reasons.
Now, next year will be different again, and prove the above, is a load of bullpoo, l certainly hope not !!

 

[Henarar]

yep next year may be different, best not get excited but have a plan for what comes along

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The year after next will have a whole extra day in it, slap bang in the middle of growing season.

We're gonna be rich

 

[som farmer]

The year after next will have a whole extra day in it, slap bang in the middle of growing season.

We're gonna be rich

not rich, just confused.

 

[crashbox]

Got some young heifers (6 months ish?) On some very long grass. Should have silage it but wanted to get them grazing. Muck quite loose. Been on grass about 10 days (maize and hay prior to that). Also getting 2kg cake but would like to cut that down.

How well will they grow?

Thoughts?

 

[Sharpy]

Got some young heifers (6 months ish?) On some very long grass. Should have silage it but wanted to get them grazing. Muck quite loose. Been on grass about 10 days (maize and hay prior to that). Also getting 2kg cake but would like to cut that down.

How well will they grow?

Thoughts?

View attachment 1039523

Surely they will grow well, if you had made it into silage (with all the loss of feed value over fresh grass) and fed it to them in the shed you would expect them to do fine without supplements?

 

[Samcowman]

Got some young heifers (6 months ish?) On some very long grass. Should have silage it but wanted to get them grazing. Muck quite loose. Been on grass about 10 days (maize and hay prior to that). Also getting 2kg cake but would like to cut that down.

How well will they grow?

Thoughts?

View attachment 1039523

How many days are you giving them per shift? Their looseness could be because they are in a big area and are snaffling up all the sweeties and leaving the roughage behind which would help bind them up.

 

[som farmer]

look to be doing fine to me, cut cake back to .5kg, and save 52p/day/head. Quick count, about 20 there, that saving is £11.40 /day.
if you can keep them a bit tighter, should help the grass, you, to no detriment to the hfr.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

We had heifers gaining 2.6kg/day on "free for all" grazing like that, I'm only wondering what the 2kg of cake is doing for you, sounds like an expensive way to waste free feed

put another way our heifers bring in £1 per day, which is about what 2kg of hard feed would cost to buy, so in our situation the income for the month would just be getting paid to the local feed company while our $15,000 acre makes no profit at all