Pigs. The ideal shallow plough.
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Welcome aboard. I'm only learning too so I'll leave others with more experience to offer ideas first
Depends how much and how often you want advising to spend
OAD dairy here too
Herbal leys sound ideal for you. I would start with a standard mix such as Cotswold or Hurrells (and to keep everyone happy I believe Barenburgs have a mix now). I have both and they are both quite decent mixes. You can learn what works and doesn't and modify mixes to suit your ground from those, but they would give you a good start. Cotswold have loads of advice, but you do pay for that in the seed costs.
There are herbal leys here that were put in 2004 and are still productive. The newer mixes are better though, and I can comfortably see 100kg/Day growth in the spring with no fertiliser. They have a much flatter growth profile, so you don't have to scrabble around looking for grass in the summer, and the legumes in them provide significant amounts of N.
They aren't very tolerant to weeds though, and can be quite slow to establish, so its best to get a cleanish seedbed. A cover crop would be ideal for this - I have moved to a plough & drill Rye, DD Brassica into a spring reseed to build fertility and get a clean seedbed. I would try to get the PH correct, as the Rhizobia with the legumes really need a decent PH to start, but once established should be ok at around 5.5+.
A few weeds are ok and can be grazed to manage or out competed by the herbal ley. I no longer really worry about docks, but use if the cows have eaten them to measure when a pasture is grazed tight enough
For inspiration, here are some pictures of our leys during the summer.
- Location
- Derbyshire
Thanks. Those are extreme covers!
Would certainly prompt conversation with our discussion group!
What are you going in at, and what residuals? How long a grazing round?
Looks like a healthy mixed diet on the plate
We winter out (kale and bales) on some ground each year, could we DD a mix straight after this or would it be better to put a cover crop in to be grazed, followed by another 'winter forage crop' drilling a mix after the second winter. This would maybe give the weeds a bigger hit and the cover crop could target some of the fertility needed to establish herbal leys
Would certainly prompt conversation with our discussion group!
What are you going in at, and what residuals? How long a grazing round?
Looks like a healthy mixed diet on the plate
We winter out (kale and bales) on some ground each year, could we DD a mix straight after this or would it be better to put a cover crop in to be grazed, followed by another 'winter forage crop' drilling a mix after the second winter. This would maybe give the weeds a bigger hit and the cover crop could target some of the fertility needed to establish herbal leys
seems a shame to give it to the cows don't itLooks like a healthy mixed diet on the plate
seems a shame to give it to the cows don't it
I quite often pick and munch some chicory moving fences. Its quite nice once you get a taste for it
Grass & Cows are looking really good, even the Cornish Alps are green thereOAD dairy here too
Herbal leys sound ideal for you. I would start with a standard mix such as Cotswold or Hurrells (and to keep everyone happy I believe Barenburgs have a mix now). I have both and they are both quite decent mixes. You can learn what works and doesn't and modify mixes to suit your ground from those, but they would give you a good start. Cotswold have loads of advice, but you do pay for that in the seed costs.
There are herbal leys here that were put in 2004 and are still productive. The newer mixes are better though, and I can comfortably see 100kg/Day growth in the spring with no fertiliser. They have a much flatter growth profile, so you don't have to scrabble around looking for grass in the summer, and the legumes in them provide significant amounts of N.
They aren't very tolerant to weeds though, and can be quite slow to establish, so its best to get a cleanish seedbed. A cover crop would be ideal for this - I have moved to a plough & drill Rye, DD Brassica into a spring reseed to build fertility and get a clean seedbed. I would try to get the PH correct, as the Rhizobia with the legumes really need a decent PH to start, but once established should be ok at around 5.5+.
A few weeds are ok and can be grazed to manage or out competed by the herbal ley. I no longer really worry about docks, but use if the cows have eaten them to measure when a pasture is grazed tight enough
For inspiration, here are some pictures of our leys during the summer.
View attachment 745956
View attachment 745950
View attachment 745958
Grass & Cows are looking really good, even the Cornish Alps are green there
Thanks
They're covering up quite a lot of them now. Going to take some soil!
I found a picture of that first field after being grazed with young stock.
This would be what I would aim to put dry cows on.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
If your land is suitable for docks and thistles, I'd look at a tall fescue, chicory, plantain, clover, and cocksfoot mix.
Will choke them right out, you could of course omit the plantain which would give you selective herbicide options (almost impossible with chicory and plantain in a mix). Chicory is a thistle, so can effectively compete with them for resources.. weeds provide many clues as to what the place is lacking.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Um when I said lacking, I didn't mean nutrients (although there can be this)
I meant lacking depth, diversity, "structure"..
A picture often says a thousand words, but here is a successful template of a regenerating ecosystem.
Note where the weeds are - and what they are there for, more importantly.
It's really quite pretty here at the moment, with the kamahi in flower and everything growing madly.
But, there's just such incredible diversity that it opens your eyes - the only place where weeds exist are places that bear the scars of mankind.
Everything else has it well sorted.
The same type of "sorted" that we can copy, success leaves clues.
I meant lacking depth, diversity, "structure"..
A picture often says a thousand words, but here is a successful template of a regenerating ecosystem.
Note where the weeds are - and what they are there for, more importantly.
It's really quite pretty here at the moment, with the kamahi in flower and everything growing madly.
But, there's just such incredible diversity that it opens your eyes - the only place where weeds exist are places that bear the scars of mankind.
Everything else has it well sorted.
The same type of "sorted" that we can copy, success leaves clues.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Thanks
They're covering up quite a lot of them now. Going to take some soil!
I found a picture of that first field after being grazed with young stock.
View attachment 746038
This would be what I would aim to put dry cows on.
View attachment 746040
Couple of questions..OAD dairy here too
Herbal leys sound ideal for you. I would start with a standard mix such as Cotswold or Hurrells (and to keep everyone happy I believe Barenburgs have a mix now). I have both and they are both quite decent mixes. You can learn what works and doesn't and modify mixes to suit your ground from those, but they would give you a good start. Cotswold have loads of advice, but you do pay for that in the seed costs.
There are herbal leys here that were put in 2004 and are still productive. The newer mixes are better though, and I can comfortably see 100kg/Day growth in the spring with no fertiliser. They have a much flatter growth profile, so you don't have to scrabble around looking for grass in the summer, and the legumes in them provide significant amounts of N.
They aren't very tolerant to weeds though, and can be quite slow to establish, so its best to get a cleanish seedbed. A cover crop would be ideal for this - I have moved to a plough & drill Rye, DD Brassica into a spring reseed to build fertility and get a clean seedbed. I would try to get the PH correct, as the Rhizobia with the legumes really need a decent PH to start, but once established should be ok at around 5.5+.
A few weeds are ok and can be grazed to manage or out competed by the herbal ley. I no longer really worry about docks, but use if the cows have eaten them to measure when a pasture is grazed tight enough
For inspiration, here are some pictures of our leys during the summer.
View attachment 745956
View attachment 745950
View attachment 745958
Firstly, your comment about the dry cows, do you put them on what the milkers have left?
Secondly, how do you manage your spring surplus, do you take some silage, let the covers come up, and take area out for renewal?
And thirdly, what do you do as far as youngstock/replacements go?
Looks grand, I have pretty much grazed most of my "survival grass" in the boot now, so some of the residuals look very rugged.
Hard to trample it when it is so wiry and resilient, but on the plus side it should nail those tillers and force some regeneration.
Meanwhile, the clovers are really getting into swing.
I quite like them left whiteThanks
They're covering up quite a lot of them now. Going to take some soil!
I found a picture of that first field after being grazed with young stock.
View attachment 746038
This would be what I would aim to put dry cows on.
View attachment 746040
What's OAD dairy?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Good video Kp, quick & simple message
- Location
- Cornwall
I quite like them left white
What's OAD dairy?
Once A Day (milking)?
Lazy dairy farming
Block calving here so tend to have a 'fresh' paddock around 3500kg for milkers and dry cows mob stocked on the land that was wetter in the spring when the calve, and I rotate the main calving paddocks annually. I would like to try leader/follower system, especially when we often have a mob of half a dozen dry cows in summer, but the fields are a bit too big and with multiple breaks in each 'strip' it could get quite tangled up, I'm not sure I trust bored dry cows next to another group with just poly wire between them.
Being May calving and having dry cows on crops or mobstocked, we have a big spring surplus, so we do quite a big first cut, and then have younger grass for the milkers. This year with the forage rye I've got in I'm hoping to put the herd on that for at least March so potentially there will be even more to cut. Areas cut in the grazing block would normally have muck spread and be put aside later in summer to build up grass for the autumn, this works reasonably well as normally we cut the further fields in the block which happen to be drier and on a hilltop.
Youngstock are out at about a week old, and graze in agroforestry until thier first winter, when they are housed if its wet as they are a bit weaker than traditional spring calved calves. Yearlings would stay out on stockpiles grass, they would be mob stocked in the spring, starting with a 30 odd day rotation, aiming for 90 days at least by July.
It seemed simple in my head.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
