"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[ShooTa]

i guess that would also allow you to switch it to the reverse on 2nd time into that field.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yes, and it is allowing me to keep them happy while screwing down their area, some really nice quality stuff coming up but I also want to tighten them up to make the extra fencing worthwhile, as it does take best part of an hour to set a paddock up, with the trough etc etc

I hope it will not only help them smash down the stemmier stuff and extract the clover, but also keeps them moving as the weather is fairly fickle, and gives the lambs space as well. I want to make sure my silage area has a decent recovery as it will likely be coming down this week, so thinking 2 months in advance....

Quite apparent the effect of animals with options, in how they have transferred fertility over time. It's more apparent with longer covers:

Much less on the slopes, as you can see.
Over time I want to rectify this, I think trees will help.

 

[onesiedale]

View attachment 746346
@hendrebc , I was saying before that I might go to twice-a-day moves, and this is my first attempt.
A rectangle of 1.3 ha, split in half (for 24 hours) on the diagonal
Then split diagonally the other way with a single, high wire, so the bulls and sheep spend 12 hours on each side.View attachment 746348

Would it make life easier if the sheep followed the cattle round? Or vice versa if it's the lambs you want to push?

 

[Kevtherev]

Yes, and it is allowing me to keep them happy while screwing down their area, some really nice quality stuff coming up but I also want to tighten them up to make the extra fencing worthwhile, as it does take best part of an hour to set a paddock up, with the trough etc etc

I hope it will not only help them smash down the stemmier stuff and extract the clover, but also keeps them moving as the weather is fairly fickle, and gives the lambs space as well. I want to make sure my silage area has a decent recovery as it will likely be coming down this week, so thinking 2 months in advance....

Quite apparent the effect of animals with options, in how they have transferred fertility over time. It's more apparent with longer covers:View attachment 746384
Much less on the slopes, as you can see.
Over time I want to rectify this, I think trees will help.

Plant some shelter belts

 

[onesiedale]

Thanks @Kiwi Pete and @Agrispeed for the 'farm tours' you posted earlier. Prompted me to take a few pictures this afternoon and show you what we have here to work with.

This is looking across our middle ground . We have some kale and bales under the hill for out wintering.

Further along we have old pasture, full of thistles and ripe for 'improvement'. It's here I want to tackle with holistic practice. Whilst not very clear, there are old lynchett and ridge/furrow systems. The lynchetts are best part of 3000 years old (bronze age). Like kp said, man's interference with the landscape.

Here I'm up at the top looking back at the farm and village in the distant trees

Now I am looking down on the dry cows . This hill is fantastic for drystock keep. There's 150 cows on here and it will keep them till New year, with a few bales to supplement. I do wonder here if I should be dividing up this hill into smaller paddocks?

Lastly I'm looking back down on the middle ground. Again, more lynchetts and to the left an experimental patch of forage rye/rape mix that will hopefully give the milkers a good bite in march, post calving. To be followed by a mix that will give us our first proper venture into herbal leys. Farm and parlour just off to top rh corner

Sorry there's not much to see in the way of stock. R1s are out on the lower paddocks and R2s were behind me on the top of the hill. Still milking some cows but they are inside now (only 10 days till drying off and winter shut down)
Hope you enjoyed the short farm tour.

 

[Agrispeed]

@onesiedale, thanks for that, its always interesting to see what other's places look like. I'm guessing you are quite high up there? It's not a part of the country I would normally associate with spring calving.

I would be interested in seeing some pictures of your Rape/Rye mix. I put in some forage rye this Autumn for the first time and I'm quite pleased with how its coming on. I'm hoping to graze it about the same time as you and then do a cut later. Have you got much experience with it?

I'm a big fan of cell grazing, especially with dry stock, but I can imagine that it would take up a fair bit of time on a hill like that so it's a balance of wether its worth it over the time that could be spent elsewhere.

We don't have any ridge and furrow or similar here, it does look quite interesting and a bit different to me

 

[ShooTa]

onsiedale - your pastures look very similar to mine -albiet i dont have the cattle to speed up the impact- just the sheep atm . note to self - borrow some of @hendrebc s

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Would it make life easier if the sheep followed the cattle round? Or vice versa if it's the lambs you want to push?

Yes it probably would.

.. And yes, in more of a hurry with the lambs just at the moment, as I want these big ram lambs gone before they do as ram lambs do (a handful going tomorrow night, liveweight, hopefully $150 a throw).

 

[Henarar]

(a handful going tomorrow night, liveweight, hopefully $150 a throw).

what sort of weight ?

 

[Agrispeed]

Started to get wet here. Time for some soil abuse

Forage rape, min-tilled after arable silage. Didn't have the best summer, and a bit less bulk than I would like, but still a seriously cheap way to feed cows.

Still get bloody wet legs if you forget your waterproofs though.

Making fertiliser in here at night.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

what sort of weight ?

45-49kg, full as a tick.
Only having a few it isn't worth me killing, so they can go to mart

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Some people (same as with the cattle) seem to have a better price, I guess they have supply contracts during the season.
So it probably works out just as well, that way.

 

[Samcowman]

Started to get wet here. Time for some soil abuse
View attachment 746740
Forage rape, min-tilled after arable silage. Didn't have the best summer, and a bit less bulk than I would like, but still a seriously cheap way to feed cows.
View attachment 746742
Still get bloody wet legs if you forget your waterproofs though.

Making fertiliser in here at night.
View attachment 746748

Are those red bands I spot hiding in the rape? @kiwipete will be impressed.
What do you figure it costs to feed them per day on the forage rape. Looking at options for a multi species cover when the barley comes off next year.

 

[Macsky]

I see there’s another thread going on the merits of using lime under straw for bedding to stretch the straw out. Looking at it from another angle, what would limed muck be like going out on grass, sounds like rocket fuel!

I asked a q ages ago on the pH (and/or effect on soil pH) of standard straw bedded cattle muck but never got a response, anyone here have any thoughts?

 

[onesiedale]

@onesiedale, thanks for that, its always interesting to see what other's places look like. I'm guessing you are quite high up there? It's not a part of the country I would normally associate with spring calving.

I would be interested in seeing some pictures of your Rape/Rye mix. I put in some forage rye this Autumn for the first time and I'm quite pleased with how its coming on. I'm hoping to graze it about the same time as you and then do a cut later. Have you got much experience with it?

I'm a big fan of cell grazing, especially with dry stock, but I can imagine that it would take up a fair bit of time on a hill like that so it's a balance of wether its worth it over the time that could be spent elsewhere.

We don't have any ridge and furrow or similar here, it does look quite interesting and a bit different to me

The Farm is at 700 feet, the ground runs from 550 to 1200 at the trig point. The rape/rye mix doesn't compare to yours, but I'm hopeful that it will perform well by spring. Will get out later this week and take some pictures .
Dividing the hill wouldn't be too difficult, it's the water that is limiting. It's on the jobs list for next summer. Looked at those kiwitech tanks this week, those with the spike on to put on a hillside look like they would work well, assuming I could find a spot with enough soil depth.

 

[Agrispeed]

Are those red bands I spot hiding in the rape? @kiwipete will be impressed.
What do you figure it costs to feed them per day on the forage rape. Looking at options for a multi species cover when the barley comes off next year.

Short wellies make everything look bigger...

I will have to look at the prices but I think the seed was under £45/Ha and establishment with an Einbock grass drill was £30.

I did a couple of passes to chit weeds after harvesting, but a small tractor and 6m harrow uses bugger all diesel or wear, as does rolling so its quite hard to work out the cost.

Going just on NAAC contracting charges its would be

Seed 45
Drilling 30
Cultivations 20
Rolling 20

So £115/Ha

I'm feeding it as about ½ - ⅓ of their diet, so it should do 15 days/Ha for 50 cows, so I work it out as 15p a day per cow.

This year seed was difficult to get hold off and we were late getting it in so we were limited to stubble turnips or rape, but hopefully next year I will get some hybrid rape or kale after forage rye instead, which should be a bit higher yielding.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I see there’s another thread going on the merits of using lime under straw for bedding to stretch the straw out. Looking at it from another angle, what would limed muck be like going out on grass, sounds like rocket fuel!

I asked a q ages ago on the pH (and/or effect on soil pH) of standard straw bedded cattle muck but never got a response, anyone here have any thoughts?

I think the pH would vary a bit, to be honest even the cattle I have had killed have all had differing pH on their sheet.
And then their diet would also matter, that wet "lawn clippings" type silage comes out much more acidic than haylage, that's just grass!
(I am thinking of all the other crap I have seen discussed on TFF as cow food )
And then it would also make a difference as to the straw/sh!t ratio, plus how long it sits in a heap and what happens in the heap...
But it's effect should be that it feeds heaps of worms and decomposers, which will turn it to humus, which is relatively neutral and also buffers what is not.

 

[Blaithin]

Farm across the dam from me winters their cows out on corn. They rotate fields ever year and this time the field is easily seen on the hill when you’re standing at my driveway. My phone has barely adequate zoom so I’ll see if my camera can get a better photo when I’m on days off again

You can see the cows on the far left block.

 

[awkward]

Farm across the dam from me winters their cows out on corn. They rotate fields ever year and this time the field is easily seen on the hill when you’re standing at my driveway. My phone has barely adequate zoom so I’ll see if my camera can get a better photo when I’m on days off again

You can see the cows on the far left block.

View attachment 746800

is that a standing crop I guess he feeds some hay also

 

[Blaithin]

is that a standing crop I guess he feeds some hay also

Yes, it’s standing. The white lines are where they’ve mowed it to place the Hotwire.

I’ve never seen anyone feed hay to cattle out on corn. If they’re going back to the corral for water then I guess it’s not impossible there’s feed for them there but I doubt it. I’ll have to go for a drive, that block might be right beside a road for me to get up too it.