"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
yeah this years grazing chart is now very much off plan - basically all the time lengths that id guestimated were all too long as they were based off me taking them too tight too early .. im sure itll work out - but makes planned events somewhat tricky but itll get fudged somehow..

Question for anyone thats done weed control with the mobs - ive got heavy nettles round trees - and rather than scythe/strim and let them eat them like i did last year im thinking of short (1-2hr)b trample - but whats the best way of getting them from their previous paddock into one that clearly is tiny and not as inviting as the grass 3 ft away.???
I think you just train them to move with a set routine, unless you have very crafty sheeps they just pour into/over wherever you let them.
You can't do it too often or they become wise to it
 

GreenerGrass

Member
Location
Wilts
I've got approx 100 ewes and 140 lambs mobbed, and they are presently on 2.8 acre paddocks (approx) moving every 4 days. They are doing well... however, some of the grass is heading, and whilst they munch down areas - others are left. It's all old PP. Mostly they graze understory of headed grass, but not always, some clumps they don't seem to venture in. Photos show post-grazing. Can take another to show pre-grazing condition.

I want to get them off the paddocks after 4 days to prevent auto-reinfection with parasites, but also to stop them hitting any regrowth and damaging better plants. At present speed they will be back in those paddocks in approx 40 days. Any ideas on the grass sp. they are leaving. I think it might be Soft Brome - an annual?

I'm a bit conflicted - don't mind leaving higher grass covers as very dry at the moment, and help with regrowth, hold dew etc. But not sure if I'm perpetuating this less palatable grass, and all the seeds it's going to drop. Should I run a high topper over it to reset the clock and prevent seeds reaching maturity, or leave it, or do something else! I put salt licks in some areas of longer grass and these get trampled down, but only limited impact at paddock scale..

I could maybe half the paddock and have them in for 2 days. But I am limited on amount of electric wire I have at the minute. Thoughts welcome!
 

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got the same problem/thought quandry here @GreenerGrass - from my discussions last year at groundswell was dont let it be an issue yet - later in the summer when they come back round again you can tighten them up in the areas with seedheads to smash them and eat them - a bit like my nettle problem above really
OR you could do a high top once theyve moved from the field... but then youve got the added man hours/fuel/vehicle cost/compaction etc.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
yeah this years grazing chart is now very much off plan - basically all the time lengths that id guestimated were all too long as they were based off me taking them too tight too early .. im sure itll work out - but makes planned events somewhat tricky but itll get fudged somehow..

Question for anyone thats done weed control with the mobs - ive got heavy nettles round trees - and rather than scythe/strim and let them eat them like i did last year im thinking of short (1-2hr)b trample - but whats the best way of getting them from their previous paddock into one that clearly is tiny and not as inviting as the grass 3 ft away.???
Can you let them into a bigger cell with the nettles in then throw a cheeky extra hotwire along one side and walk it round in an arc to tighten them up where you want? My description may not be great but it's essentially what I did a few weeks ago when I made the mistake of taking their front wire down to take the trike through before erecting the front wire of the new cell and they escaped down the ungrazed lane :facepalm:. I had to put up a new cross wire in front of where they stopped and "walk" it back to get them back where I wanted them:sneaky::D.

I learnt not to make assumptions about them from that :rolleyes::)
 

GreenerGrass

Member
Location
Wilts
got the same problem/thought quandry here @GreenerGrass - from my discussions last year at groundswell was dont let it be an issue yet - later in the summer when they come back round again you can tighten them up in the areas with seedheads to smash them and eat them - a bit like my nettle problem above really
OR you could do a high top once theyve moved from the field... but then youve got the added man hours/fuel/vehicle cost/compaction etc.
Thanks, on nettles this time of year they seem to start to become palatable when standing, my sheep have just started grazing them. I usually do what you do and feed them by cutting them as they all like dried nettles only a few have mastered technique of eating them standing.

My thoughts are same with fuel etc I don't mind looking untidy I hope in future will have fewer annuals due to better pasture management. Might do a few stripes to see difference. Your advice makes sense and was what I was hoping to hear.

At the minute I'd rather better stock growth, previous years I've tried to get them to graze some of these problems out. But I think they don't do as well and probably doesn't benefit the pasture either holding them on longer
 

RushesToo

Member
Location
Fingringhoe
I've got approx 100 ewes and 140 lambs mobbed, and they are presently on 2.8 acre paddocks (approx) moving every 4 days. They are doing well... however, some of the grass is heading, and whilst they munch down areas - others are left. It's all old PP. Mostly they graze understory of headed grass, but not always, some clumps they don't seem to venture in. Photos show post-grazing. Can take another to show pre-grazing condition.

I want to get them off the paddocks after 4 days to prevent auto-reinfection with parasites, but also to stop them hitting any regrowth and damaging better plants. At present speed they will be back in those paddocks in approx 40 days. Any ideas on the grass sp. they are leaving. I think it might be Soft Brome - an annual?

I'm a bit conflicted - don't mind leaving higher grass covers as very dry at the moment, and help with regrowth, hold dew etc. But not sure if I'm perpetuating this less palatable grass, and all the seeds it's going to drop. Should I run a high topper over it to reset the clock and prevent seeds reaching maturity, or leave it, or do something else! I put salt licks in some areas of longer grass and these get trampled down, but only limited impact at paddock scale..

I could maybe half the paddock and have them in for 2 days. But I am limited on amount of electric wire I have at the minute. Thoughts welcome!
I would try and look at it as a worry about what to do with too much grass. It's a nice problem to have.
It may leave you short later on with grasses dying off after seeding early - more stock or different grasses would seem to be a solution? How you get to where you want to be is up to you.
 

RushesToo

Member
Location
Fingringhoe
yeah this years grazing chart is now very much off plan - basically all the time lengths that id guestimated were all too long as they were based off me taking them too tight too early .. im sure itll work out - but makes planned events somewhat tricky but itll get fudged somehow..

Question for anyone thats done weed control with the mobs - ive got heavy nettles round trees - and rather than scythe/strim and let them eat them like i did last year im thinking of short (1-2hr)b trample - but whats the best way of getting them from their previous paddock into one that clearly is tiny and not as inviting as the grass 3 ft away.???
Apart from the nettles you seem to have too much grass? Another one complaining about success. :)
Farmers - go figure.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
The key it seems to me is higher density, shorter rotation, to enable more trampling and less selective grazing.
Very noticeable in the field I posted a pic of the other day that they've grazed more than I would like at the top of the field but hardly touched a piece below a broken down hedge at the bottom of the field.

I can see Pete's desire for the tiny cells. It just takes a lot of infrastructure, and even if I had that in place I'm not sure I'm ready for needing to move multiple mobs multiple times a day. But if I were better organised, and/or were on smaller acreage I can see it is the most effective and efficient approach in terms of managing grass.

I'll certainly be aiming to get it down to 1 or 2 day moves instead of 3 or 4.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Thanks, on nettles this time of year they seem to start to become palatable when standing, my sheep have just started grazing them. I usually do what you do and feed them by cutting them as they all like dried nettles only a few have mastered technique of eating them standing.

My thoughts are same with fuel etc I don't mind looking untidy I hope in future will have fewer annuals due to better pasture management. Might do a few stripes to see difference. Your advice makes sense and was what I was hoping to hear.

At the minute I'd rather better stock growth, previous years I've tried to get them to graze some of these problems out. But I think they don't do as well and probably doesn't benefit the pasture either holding them on longer
It's always a trade-off.
You may as well store the flush on their backs in the spring, if I was reasonably sure that rains would come then I'd do exactly that - our cattle were doing closer to 2.5kg/day in the spring and again it's TIME: they will usually grow the same amount in a season regardless.

But that's cattle and you have lambs, if they're doing then it's best to keep them doing. A beefy has a big furnace, as long as it's full then all is well.
A lamb is far from that resilient.
 

Samcowman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
In theory, yes, but I could be utterly wrong. We have 2 days left of our first round so the covers are longer just now but in 3 days we'll be on shorter stuff.

Oh, and only 30% of the land has had any fertiliser this year. The remainder grew ok without it so I'm taking the plunge.

Our grazing chart is being updated regularly as things change :whistle::rolleyes:

Like I said, a novice ;):D

Still on your first round!! That must be pretty strong by now, they should be getting a good bit of trample with that. I must get my plan down on paper one day. If I get round to it. At the moment it’s in my head of 0.5hec / day. I’ve taken a decision for this weekend to give them 2hec for 2 days as we are cutting silage tomorrow and I didn’t have time to put a long cross fence in today. I think I will probably let it stretch out to 3 days to hopefully stop a few more seed heads. Then they will be on silage fields for the week to give a bit more recovery time.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
"Average" equals one size that fits nobody.
It does if talking weather.
Or growth rates, etc.

If you work on averages it can become almost a prejudice, and it takes the focus away from adaptability.

If you do get "average", then it's ideal because it's in the middle of the range of what you planned for, but planning for best and worst cases is usually the most helpful if you want above average outcomes

As someone wise said, "if you are going to panic, panic early" - but you can always plan for extreme conditions, even if the reactions aren't what you'd like
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
The key it seems to me is higher density, shorter rotation, to enable more trampling and less selective grazing.
Very noticeable in the field I posted a pic of the other day that they've grazed more than I would like at the top of the field but hardly touched a piece below a broken down hedge at the bottom of the field.

I can see Pete's desire for the tiny cells. It just takes a lot of infrastructure, and even if I had that in place I'm not sure I'm ready for needing to move multiple mobs multiple times a day. But if I were better organised, and/or were on smaller acreage I can see it is the most effective and efficient approach in terms of managing grass.

I'll certainly be aiming to get it down to 1 or 2 day moves instead of 3 or 4.
Yeah, it's just hard to get much control over what they do, otherwise.
And even when you have that control, it takes a few grazings to get that evenness back, I started in the summer by which time they'd already been quite selective and they're still not grazing as I'd like, but getting there.
Really looking forward to a proper "reset" over the winter months and doing it better in the spring, been a good learning experience with my various experiments!

As you say you'd want to be well set up to.move multiple mobs multiple times, hence running only 1.1 mobs here
 

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