"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
My own "theory" (probably incorrect) is that in the springtime, you want to be going as fast around as you can while still making sure each individual plant gets a prune.
Not much more, not much less, just "topped"

Some of my more ryegrassy ones have had two light grazings per month, for example; what I've struggled with is having enough stock to do it, because of the way I've stocked the place and the classes of stock - the calves aren't born yet and so we're looking for R1 dairy calves to do this.

The ones with less ryegrass are much easier to manage in this respect.

So that'a why I need the tighter cells, rather than spread everything out and let them be selective, I want them to be mobbed but moving - if I had my way (be a fulltime grazier) then we'd keep the quarter acre cells and move 5 or 6 times a day during that rapid growth period.
The result would be a very flat "wedge" but also a very high average cover across the farm, none of this 2100kg crap, double it if possible, because there's your extra 2 tons of cover that becomes 2 tons of DM for the soil to consume - which then becomes about 3+ tons of extra feed later on.

What it means is that you are still only taking half the plant per grazing but the plants are getting bigger and bigger all the time, and then they stay leafy

When you try clamping down on them to prevent them flowering, they slow down because reproduction is what they live to do, (not feed our cows) and then you grow less to feed your cows with, which is practically the advice given by the folks who sell us bagged myths: "don't let post-grazing covers rise" or "you'll lose quality"..
..and what'ya know, you lose quality and quantity, every year.. but because they are experts, we believe this natural occurence to be our own fault!

So it comes back to thinking... think what would be happening if we didn't have 11kV keeping them parked up, segregated: the whole county's cattle would be running together and smashing over whatever was in their path - but I can't think where they would be eating grass down past halfway, unless a river stopped them.
They just don't do that, because the energy is in the top of the plant they keep moving looking for more, and the predators help keep them moving and picking off whatever they can catch up to.

So that's one thought process..

Predating "a farmer's stock" is much easier, because they have less energy and sore feet, (and probably have half a lamb or calf hanging out of them :rolleyes:) and this is due to not enough mustering and not enough movement, in most cases.

There's the difference between rotational and rational grazing - what we're thinking, as apex predators
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
This was basically what I took out of a day with Ian Mitchell-Innes, the South African dude on tour.

They have predators, real predators, so they can't really have internal fences for that reason; they do kraal the cattle at night but for the rest of the day their "electric fences" are people, herdsmen, who keep them all in an area and safe from lions etc etc.
Another team pack up and move the kraal and then take over the herding from the morning crew, and put them away at night.

They have one main watering point and the stock are driven from grazing to watering and back, they also have 4 satellite watering points - but this is 7000 cattle in SA, not our little mobs of pets.. either way you don't want to be holding them back
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I guess that's as good an example as anything really, of how the whole electric fencing shenanigans can be misinterpreted - controlled starvation, rationing feed - which is where I am now going into winter: so I don't get to what Voisin would call "untoward acceleration"

If/when that occurs, I'll make the call to the sheep owner and they will be on a truck outta here before I can say "supplementary feeding" - it's about rethinking what is permanent and what is temporary - what our priority is.
In my context the environment, pastures, soils take precedence over the stock - .grass isn't the consumable item but the livestock are.
.soil structure and health comes before livestock gains and cashflow.

To me, that's being "Regenerative"
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Oh, definitely.

As I established this year end use makes a huge huge difference, say a whiteface bull I can grow cheaply, then lease it out to cover my cost and then sell it purely for profit.
Same with a decent friesian or jersey, a saler or BB just isn't going to do that here because nobody wants one
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Why wouldn’t breed play a roll? Not the entire roll but definitely a part.

I’d never bugger around with Brahman here, for instance.
Which breed to use is part of the jigsaw in making a farm work & the reason we have so many breeds is because one breed doesn't fit all systems or areas.
To be fair to the farmer in question I had written off native breeds until I was a similar age, whether it's a age thing & you start to question things around you more or you just want easier animals as you get older?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Which breed to use is part of the jigsaw in making a farm work & the reason we have so many breeds is because one breed doesn't fit all systems or areas.
To be fair to the farmer in question I had written off native breeds until I was a similar age, whether it's a age thing & you start to question things around you more or you just want easier animals as you get older?
Likewise, it appears we came to a similar conclusion too - not saying it would be right for everyone, but good for us.
I have a big calf experiment going on here and the red friesians are also pretty outstanding, as are the pure hereford (which you'd expect are like little barrels) but nothing really has compared to the AA type smaller beefy breed or the shorthorn cross - so there's my cue, a "kiwi pete speckle park"
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Which breed to use is part of the jigsaw in making a farm work & the reason we have so many breeds is because one breed doesn't fit all systems or areas.
To be fair to the farmer in question I had written off native breeds until I was a similar age, whether it's a age thing & you start to question things around you more or you just want easier animals as you get older?
and the breed o cow is only a part of that part of the jigsaw, we all know there is variation within breeds and then there is the breed of bull you put on them and the variation in that breed to eventually get the calf that you sell and then that can be down to if you sell the calf as a stirk a forward store or finished all this can make a difference
hence I didn't answer his question but it did get me thinking that probably the best paying suck cow we had was a ped British blue, sold several bulls from her and used a couple others and have some of her females in the herd
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Likewise, it appears we came to a similar conclusion too - not saying it would be right for everyone, but good for us.
I have a big calf experiment going on here and the red friesians are also pretty outstanding, as are the pure hereford (which you'd expect are like little barrels) but nothing really has compared to the AA type smaller beefy breed or the shorthorn cross - so there's my cue, a "kiwi pete speckle park"
I love my Beef Shorthorns they definitely fit a grass based system very well but would agree with @Henarar that there's a huge variation with in breeds & depends on what market your aiming for.
 

Karliboy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Yorkshire
My own "theory" (probably incorrect) is that in the springtime, you want to be going as fast around as you can while still making sure each individual plant gets a prune.
Not much more, not much less, just "topped"

I could do this but My problem with this is that normally (this year being a exception) is that in the spring when I have good early growth the land would just be to wet and would become churned up with being steep.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I could do this but My problem with this is that normally (this year being a exception) is that in the spring when I have good early growth the land would just be to wet and would become churned up with being steep.
It's definitely going to be a challenge this coming spring, I really really need to start getting my water put out soon but still waiting on pipe.
Spring management is really where I'm going to set myself up for the rest of the season, also the busy time of year with my work :facepalm:

luckily the days are long :sleep:
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Don’t say that Pete we are only just getting going here and it’s less than 4 weeks to longest for us shortest for you day:unsure:
I know :rolleyes:

they are already plotting my birthday :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Getting some water infrastructure in place will be such a help in getting the rest streamlined, even if it is half done it's better than not done at all.
That's what chews the time.
 

onesiedale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Derbyshire
Which breed to use is part of the jigsaw in making a farm work & the reason we have so many breeds is because one breed doesn't fit all systems or areas.
To be fair to the farmer in question I had written off native breeds until I was a similar age, whether it's a age thing & you start to question things around you more or you just want easier animals as you get older?
Definitely an age thing. Maybe not just questioning things for the sake of it. More, I would say, standing back and looking at the big picture. Or as some would call it, taking the Holistic approach.
 

jack6480

Member
Location
Staffs
If you have paddocks that are grazed down leaving a third and now there’s things like nettles and a few thistles left should these be topped or rolled at flowering?
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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