"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Is there a group to point them towards? @Sheila Cooke has repeatedly suggested we set up as a Savory training hub once we get settled.

I believe that what you are seeing is the most effective, if slow, way that holistic management will spread: by farmers observing their "mad" neighbours doing better than they are and asking questions.

Alan says we must make it happen much faster than that though if we are to address the climate issues in time.

Perhaps the writing IS on the wall for the bloated Ag supply and conventional "education" industry.
@Kiwi Pete have you come across Hugh Jellie at Caring Dairying? They are an accredited Savory Institute hub in New Zealand. I'd like to encourage you to connect your neighbour with Hugh, because Hugh can help him open up further to new ways of thinking.

Caring Dairying, LTD
Email us: [email protected]

Another thought is to recommend to your neighbour to watch this video by Allan Savory. Allan told me that this video has done more to turn people on to managing holistically than any other thing he has ever done.

How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change | Allan Savory

You give a really interesting description of the state of mind of your neighbour, which reminds me of the work my husband, Christopher, does in human change. There are six signs of readiness for change in humans:

1) Potential -- the mind is open and has the potential for more complex thinking.

-- Just by having the conversation with you, he's indicating his mind is becoming more open. Your comment, "he looks over the fence with jealousy as he can see the system working for us now, although it 'didn't really seem to make any sense' to him for a while", is indicative of a mind that is starting to open up.


2) Solutions -- problems related to current and previous life conditions are resolved.

-- His comment, "He's really searching for something different," indicates he's ready for new solutions to his existing problems.


3) Dissonance -- the inability to respond to emergent life conditions leads to dissonance and a need for change.

-- His comment, "busting a gut and not really getting anywhere", indicates a high degree of dissonance -- which is great. We often require something negative pushing us to make change. We could describe his state as, "I know something needs to change, but I'm not sure what."


4) Barriers -- the barriers to change are identified and overcome.

-- 'That which we know to be true,' is often our biggest barrier to change. This is particularly true for adult farmers who have done things the way they were taught by parents, grandparents, universities, and governments. In order for him to continue making change he is going to have to do a lot of unlearning, so that his mind can be freed up to learn something new. This is what we call, 'removing the barriers to change'.


5) Insight -- new awareness about possible root causes and potential options emerges.

-- You are providing him with new insights that something better is possible through your demonstration on your farm (this is awesome!) Once he starts to hear and see these same insights from other farmers, he will start to believe them. When we hear new ideas from at least 3 different people, we start to wonder if there is any truth in it. This is a key reason it's important to link up with Hugh.


6) Consolidation -- consolidation and support exists for the transition.

-- It's really common, once a person starts down the track of change, to revert back to old ways of thinking and doing once it's all going well. To complete the change requires continuous positive reinforcement. Having you as a neighbour will be great for him!

By the way, here's another organisation in New Zealand which I believe are managing holistically. Are you aware of them? First Light
 
By the way, I love this group!

We exhibited at Groundswell last week, and the very first person who came into our stand at 8 AM marched right in and said, "You liked me on The Farming Forum. Can you tell me why?" Which of course opened up a fantastic conversation. Thank you to The Farming Forum for making these much-needed human connections possible!

Here is a link to Allan Savory's first talk at Groundswell last week. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/_lv1ptAQHso
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
@Kiwi Pete have you come across Hugh Jellie at Caring Dairying? They are an accredited Savory Institute hub in New Zealand. I'd like to encourage you to connect your neighbour with Hugh, because Hugh can help him open up further to new ways of thinking.

Caring Dairying, LTD
Email us: [email protected]

Another thought is to recommend to your neighbour to watch this video by Allan Savory. Allan told me that this video has done more to turn people on to managing holistically than any other thing he has ever done.

How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change | Allan Savory

You give a really interesting description of the state of mind of your neighbour, which reminds me of the work my husband, Christopher, does in human change. There are six signs of readiness for change in humans:

1) Potential -- the mind is open and has the potential for more complex thinking.

-- Just by having the conversation with you, he's indicating his mind is becoming more open. Your comment, "he looks over the fence with jealousy as he can see the system working for us now, although it 'didn't really seem to make any sense' to him for a while", is indicative of a mind that is starting to open up.


2) Solutions -- problems related to current and previous life conditions are resolved.

-- His comment, "He's really searching for something different," indicates he's ready for new solutions to his existing problems.


3) Dissonance -- the inability to respond to emergent life conditions leads to dissonance and a need for change.

-- His comment, "busting a gut and not really getting anywhere", indicates a high degree of dissonance -- which is great. We often require something negative pushing us to make change. We could describe his state as, "I know something needs to change, but I'm not sure what."


4) Barriers -- the barriers to change are identified and overcome.

-- 'That which we know to be true,' is often our biggest barrier to change. This is particularly true for adult farmers who have done things the way they were taught by parents, grandparents, universities, and governments. In order for him to continue making change he is going to have to do a lot of unlearning, so that his mind can be freed up to learn something new. This is what we call, 'removing the barriers to change'.


5) Insight -- new awareness about possible root causes and potential options emerges.

-- You are providing him with new insights that something better is possible through your demonstration on your farm (this is awesome!) Once he starts to hear and see these same insights from other farmers, he will start to believe them. When we hear new ideas from at least 3 different people, we start to wonder if there is any truth in it. This is a key reason it's important to link up with Hugh.


6) Consolidation -- consolidation and support exists for the transition.

-- It's really common, once a person starts down the track of change, to revert back to old ways of thinking and doing once it's all going well. To complete the change requires continuous positive reinforcement. Having you as a neighbour will be great for him!

By the way, here's another organisation in New Zealand which I believe are managing holistically. Are you aware of them? First Light
Thank you, Sheila, that's a really handy contact to have - already noted in the back of my diary where special things go

As are the bullet points you shared about change :)

I've just been up with my friend Andrew (he has the technograzing beef operation I mentioned a while back) and we were discussing the conversations that farmers don't have, or at least don't like to have.
At the moment in his area, it's water (especially groundwater) quality.

Seems the cropping guys don't even want to hear about it, which is sad, because it's their money down the drain.

Thanks . (y)
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
That would make a great bale grazing soil improver for damaged land then. (y)
Its actually surprising how much grass is in it and how good it looked when I baled it, I didn't take a photo but will take one of the bales
I have some to bale tomorrow that has a lot of fleabane in it and I usually little bale it to feed out to some cattle we keep out till jan/feb in an old orchard but this year I am going to round bale it and roll it out down the field for them to graze
we take a few bits of keep where there is a fair bit of what some would call rubbish in the sward and I find that although its not really very good as silage/haylage its surprising how it "comes back" when made to hay, we keep a bale in a feeder in the corner of the yard so the cows and calves can pick at it and its surprising how they eat it rather than the better quality silage at times and I think it does them good to have something that isn't pickled to eat
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
I was going to answer but couldn't be arsed with the arguments off anyone saying the job is doomed or about small hairy cattle that don't come to any money. I'd already decided that natives were the answer to a lot of out beef cattle problems the Angus and Hereford bonuses when you sell them are the icing on the cake :cool:
Its a shame you can't get the premium if the Dam was pure Angus rather than the sire
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
What I've found mind blowing on some of those threads is I've put premium prices of what can be achieved & only 1 person asked how to achieve those premiums :scratchhead:
If someone was getting 15-25% more than me for doing a similar job I'd be looking at what they are doing.
Kp said surely it was profitable @ 350- 360p/kg with native breeds & no one answered!?
Sorcery!! :ROFLMAO:
Yes, I was also amazed that you didn't get bombarded by questions.

f**king hippies :rolleyes:
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
discussing the conversations that farmers don't have, or at least don't like to have.
At the moment in his area, it's water (especially groundwater) quality.

Seems the cropping guys don't even want to hear about it, which is sad, because it's their money down the drain.

Thanks . (y)
That's the bit I'd like to try to help with once we get comfortable in Newstrayla ;)
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Its a shame you can't get the premium if the Dam was pure Angus rather than the sire
Yes I think so too because it would be exactly the same cross. I expect it's because they want dairy cross Angus beef not more variable ones from all breeds of sucklers.
Odd really as it wasn't long ago that the news letters from the Abbattiors were saying they wanted continental calves from native breed dams , but they've never paid a premium for that.
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Odd really as it wasn't long ago that the news letters from the Abbattiors were saying they wanted continental calves from native breed dams , but they've never paid a premium for that.
That might be what the abattoirs still want but what I see now is a push for dairy cross beef. Supermarkets want consistent pieces of meat to fit in the plastic trays.
I think it's the first step towards an integrated supply chain like the pig and poultry job. Dairy farm has contract to supply so many calves, ex suckler farmers like us are contracted to rear so many calves a year up to a certain weight by a certain time to sell to a finisher for a contracted price. Mr Tesco/Asda / whoever has beef that comes into their shops in a consistent way they know about and can budget for. There will be major penalties for not meeting targets and the beef price can be controlled from the top. There will be no winners in this apart from Mr Tesco/Asda/whoever. But that's the way it's going to go.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
That might be what the abattoirs still want but what I see now is a push for dairy cross beef. Supermarkets want consistent pieces of meat to fit in the plastic trays.
I think it's the first step towards an integrated supply chain like the pig and poultry job. Dairy farm has contract to supply so many calves, ex suckler farmers like us are contracted to rear so many calves a year up to a certain weight by a certain time to sell to a finisher for a contracted price. Mr Tesco/Asda / whoever has beef that comes into their shops in a consistent way they know about and can budget for. There will be major penalties for not meeting targets and the beef price can be controlled from the top. There will be no winners in this apart from Mr Tesco/Asda/whoever. But that's the way it's going to go.
I went to a meeting on integrated beef scheme in the spring, they said it would be the end of suckler herds, but I came away with a different impression & actually think the future will be bright for sucklers ( after this year ).
Lidl have started to label their chicken - In door , British indoor , British indoor plus, British free range and British Organic , I think the same will happen with beef with suckler beef being higher than dairy bred beef.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
I went to a meeting on integrated beef scheme in the spring, they said it would be the end of suckler herds, but I came away with a different impression & actually think the future will be bright for sucklers ( after this year ).
Lidl have started to label their chicken - In door , British indoor , British indoor plus, British free range and British Organic , I think the same will happen with beef with suckler beef being higher than dairy bred beef.
How will it be proven though? Easy where a suckler herd finishes, harder where they sell as stores.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Odd really as it wasn't long ago that the news letters from the Abbattiors were saying they wanted continental calves from native breed dams , but they've never paid a premium for that.
if you could get the premium with a named dam I would have angus cows and put the blue bull on them, hell of a good cross

we have been going towards more native cows anyway but I still think calves sired by a blue or lim still sell best as a store but angus is not so far behind these days

having said that we were thinking of putting some of the ped blues to an angus bull to try to get the best of both worlds
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
That might be what the abattoirs still want but what I see now is a push for dairy cross beef. Supermarkets want consistent pieces of meat to fit in the plastic trays.
I think it's the first step towards an integrated supply chain like the pig and poultry job. Dairy farm has contract to supply so many calves, ex suckler farmers like us are contracted to rear so many calves a year up to a certain weight by a certain time to sell to a finisher for a contracted price. Mr Tesco/Asda / whoever has beef that comes into their shops in a consistent way they know about and can budget for. There will be major penalties for not meeting targets and the beef price can be controlled from the top. There will be no winners in this apart from Mr Tesco/Asda/whoever. But that's the way it's going to go.
fantastic I can't wait (n) just as well go and stack shelves for the screwing buggers
 

Samcowman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
What I've found mind blowing on some of those threads is I've put premium prices of what can be achieved & only 1 person asked how to achieve those premiums :scratchhead:
If someone was getting 15-25% more than me for doing a similar job I'd be looking at what they are doing.
Kp said surely it was profitable @ 350- 360p/kg with native breeds & no one answered!?
I agree. It would be a big struggle if we were on the old system with no Angus. They make the job worthwhile.
 

RushesToo

Member
Location
Fingringhoe
The sires tag no must be on the passport to be eligible for the AA & Beef Shorthorn schemes.

This reinforces the insanity of small animal charities that neuter males. Like that is going to stop any problem.

How can the dam not count?what special kind of intelligence thinks this is logical. Is it really a requirement - the sire has to be the breed - really?

The only thing you can be of certain of is the dam.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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