theres more energy and protein in leafy stuff for the greater area but for interste / more minerals and variety etc in long legged stuff is useful as a buffer along side ir.
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
na ive got the foot trouble too - lime in gateways and im thinking of a mat with some zinc that i can move about for them
dt995
Member
- Location
- Carmarthenshire
Vet says we should get a footbath to run them through when it flares up.
Wondering about this as perhaps easier to move around (although possibly not as durable).
Sheep Foot Mat 230cm x 47cm - Intershape Ltd
A sheep foot mat is an efficient way to treat and prevent hoof problems in sheep. A cost-effective alternative to foot baths. Buy online.
www.farmandcountrydirect.co.uk
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I don't believe grass needs to be long, or short.
It just needs to be as clean clean as possible.... 72 hours in one place is probably about 70 hours too long to outrun a contagious problem such as scald or footrot?
I do know it loves hoof to soil contact, both of these symptoms do - often it can be non-apparent going onto the crop and a whole heap of tricycles come off it...they're in a breeding ground, quite literally, for cross infection.
I guess on our "tame country" where we attempt to keep stock moving ahead of disease via electric fencing, it is a halfway measure compared to cowboys on horseback, or real "dog&stick" shepherding, or even predator pressure moving stock 30x a day with real UHD in places?
3 day breaks is good for time efficiency and forage utilisation, but perhaps less than ideal for animal performance.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
@dt995 thats what ive been looking at. - im also keeping rocksalt out with them at all times too.
@Kiwi Pete its a provoking thought about the time of contact re scalding - maybe theres something in the need for planned short periods or planned dry spots (time off field)
@Kiwi Pete its a provoking thought about the time of contact re scalding - maybe theres something in the need for planned short periods or planned dry spots (time off field)
That just seems common sense but when you read a lot of threads on here common sense & farming don't always go together.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Not too sure - I never really have limpy sheep even with running Dorpers in a damp cold climate. But I am no stranger to footrot!
It can be a proper bààstard when it races through the mob.
Not sure whether it's completely curable via one method only - ie neither culling nor medicating nor constant movement will be "a fix" (other than the old adage that removing the head fixes all 4 feet).
But it would be a real advantage to have sheep behind a single wire, and keep moving the sucker before the sheep push through - it may actually be something other than hunger that the sheep is attempting to "escape from"?? eg parasites and pathogens
Chelated Rockies are good for feet or any minerals with high Zinc .
awkward
Member
- Location
- kerry ireland
maybe zinc is not so available aswell
awkward
Member
- Location
- kerry ireland
just catching up so hadn't read every post so if I've repeayed others ....
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
I put my sheep into grass so high I couldn’t see them at all and I am surprised they found the water. I realised afterward that sheep AFTER cattle would have been better. They seemed to do well though. I am glad we have both cattle and sheep as the cattle can really knock the grass down while the sheep leave a lot more standing.It’s the diversity thing also. @dt995 could you not put lime in troughs around the waterer in the hope of improving the foot problem?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Looks like the clover-throwing has paid off.
GreenerGrass
Member
- Location
- Wilts
I agree with you. If you've got a problem you've got a problem treat and cull. Grass long or short isn't causal in my opinion. Neighbours tell me all the time too long for sheep, foot problems etc... But that is not my experience at all. Same as ringing the tails of the lambs in my opinion, which we don't do, 'but you'll get fly problems'.
But I do have a question at the moment, sheep are into regrowth of hay fields. The grass is much lusher, I've started putting small bale hay out the last two days as some have gone loose. Anything else I could/should do or just a question of their digestive system taking time to adapt.
- Location
- Derbyshire
- Young Country
nzfarmlife.co.nz
@Kiwi Pete . Just come across this article. Can't quite make my mind up if Ron Pellow is wanting to advocate HPG without actually saying it.
What he is saying though is graze higher covers to harvest more pasture and buy in less inputs. Can't be all bad.
He's over in the UK speaking at the LIC conference next month, will be interesting to see what message comes out of that
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Probably "just a transition thing" IMHO.
Ruminants use a different subset of their gut flora to digest higher protein feed than the lower protein/high energy feed, so there can be a bit of 'bypass' when feed quality changes - many simply mistake it for worms and give a drench "to dry them up".
The opposite happens during the winter, I notice; as the stock eat lower then the digestibility changes and I sometimes see splattery poo amongst all the big solid cow-cakes.
Ian Mitchell-Innes spelt out that the most efficient way to graze down the stockpile was to effectively graze down in two stages, as opposed to nailing it in one grazing - for the reasons given in my first paragraph above. The energy flow to the stock is much better if they graze the higher value feed over the first half of the winter period, and then transition to the lower value feed and graze it down when they've adapted.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Very interesting - it's difficult to say if it is HPG he's advocating with no mention of a grazing plan, however the longer rotation/ longer cover method is certainly worth considering purely from an animal health and forage supply perspective.- Young Country
@Kiwi Pete . Just come across this article. Can't quite make my mind up if Ron Pellow is wanting to advocate HPG without actually saying it.
What he is saying though is graze higher covers to harvest more pasture and buy in less inputs. Can't be all bad.
He's over in the UK speaking at the LIC conference next month, will be interesting to see what message comes out of that
There's simply more energy and more time to grow, if we shift from a 25 day shortest round to 35 days - you can "afford" a few poor growing days without falling off a cliff.
I've always been fairly mindful that a PRG sward behaves much differently to what I'd consider a balanced sward (what TFF call weed grasses) when pushing that round out beyond 35 days, especially when you stoke them along with N.
Similar to the 'giant kale' they used to grow here; the digestibility and feed value of the bottom half was similar to corrugated cardboard, so what's the use of doubling the yield?
GreenerGrass
Member
- Location
- Wilts
That makes sense to me, how long do you think we are talking a week or two?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Maybe just a few days - unless it's a very marked transition, of course.
It's no more severe a shock than what you'd expect in a summer dry area, following rain events.
That can be a big trigger of lameness, also; laminitis or white line disease often flares up with a sudden rush of non-structural carbohydrate.
Some individuals will know to seek out other feed (if they can get to it) to balance it out with higher energy feed, others won't know how to, which is why generally only "some" of the flock are loose.
Without getting too OT, it amuses me to observe that the hereford calves will happily eat much lower feed value forage, whilst the dairy-bred stock just eat the cream stuff and then think it's time to move. Obviously this information is actually instinctive, as these calves have never known "a mother" being orphans.
Neither will the friesian bulls, but they certainly lack foraging initiative by comparison to the beef cattle.
My hypothesis is that epigenetic factors (microbial "garden" of the calf) largely determines just how effective they are at harvesting energy from their range. The friesians are much happier with "lamb food".