"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hay will be about 85% dry matter. Ewes will eat about 2% maybe 3% of their body weight in dry matter per day. If they are having grass as well then they probably won't eat more than half of that in hay. Not very accurate but that will give you something to work off.
There are some feed calculators on the beef and lamb NZ website that might be helpful too.
Spot on, a 500kg animal will eat 500kg of DM in between 30 and 50 days depending on various factors (especially pregnancy)

That's why smaller animals are more efficient, a 400kg animal has a lot more of that 500kgDM to do something with other than simply stay alive - like making meat, milk, fibre or reproducing.. but her feet are the same dimension.
Her mouth is the same dimension too.
 

Blaithin

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Alberta
Her mouth is the same dimension too.
No sirree.

Many people breeding for a better grass finishing/grazing/performing animal are aiming at breeding in a broader muzzle. Lots of commercial breeds, especially dairy, have more narrow muzzles. It’s a thought that the wider the muzzle the more grass they can get in, the more than can eat. Not so important in a world filled with concentrates but a good goal if one wants to go towards a grass system.

Big barrelled, broad muzzled, wide chest.

A small cow can be more efficient. They can also be less efficient if their conformation is poor. Muzzle and mouth are part of conformation even if they don’t tend to be common points of discussion.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
No sirree.

Many people breeding for a better grass finishing/grazing/performing animal are aiming at breeding in a broader muzzle. Lots of commercial breeds, especially dairy, have more narrow muzzles. It’s a thought that the wider the muzzle the more grass they can get in, the more than can eat. Not so important in a world filled with concentrates but a good goal if one wants to go towards a grass system.

Big barrelled, broad muzzled, wide chest.

A small cow can be more efficient. They can also be less efficient if their conformation is poor. Muzzle and mouth are part of conformation even if they don’t tend to be common points of discussion.
That's probably dead correct, because I don't see concentrate-fed animals down here I didn't consider that when I said it.
Cracking day here now. :cool:
20191201_165240.jpg

Was a bit damp while we sorted out some beef to go tomorrow, hence the wrong boots ^^
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Another 15 away in a week-ten days, when we can get space.
I sent the big rowdy guys that are always blowing their trumpets at 2am, so I'm looking forward to better night's sleep
 

exmoor dave

Member
Location
exmoor, uk


Big like to that!

It was a big eye opener just how much organizing was needed at home to get away on honeymoon....and I'm lucky to to have 2 colleagues plus wider family,
It was just a realisation how much stuff needed explaining and writing down
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Big like to that!

It was a big eye opener just how much organizing was needed at home to get away on honeymoon....and I'm lucky to to have 2 colleagues plus wider family,
It was just a realisation how much stuff needed explaining and writing down
Funny how that can work, "I am the business" is very often the way it is, unnoticed unless you want or are forced off the farm

Stuff has to be simple, fun etc rather than rigid (unless on honeymoon, sorry had to be said)

I guess that's why I like the "feel it, see it this way" type of decisionmaking process rather than "the cattle get x amount of area" type of thing; it makes it very easy to delegate jobs when it's all safe to fail
 
cheers @Kiwi Pete -
im liking the option of hay (hayladge) early
its hobby numbers for me still here - but from my basic cals - heaviest ewes are just sub 80kg - so at 1.2% bw for first 60 (dec/jan) and then climbing to 3% for the second 60 (feb/mar) and theres 67 of them (assuming all in lamb) - plus 20 elambs at 50kg (wiggle factor on growth included) @2% -

im working on 85kgdm/day for the whole mob for first 60 days = 5060kgdm and then
and working toward 130kgdm/day for second 60 =7800kgdm
so a total = 12860


the bales claim to be 500kg (im assuming nearer 300- factoring in some of that 80% @hendrebc ) sadly i cant wiegh them atm - but may drag one in the trailer to a weighbridge (unless anyone has an other idea)
so 1 bale alone should last 3 and a bit days - but 67 wont fit round one bale, unless i unroll

ive got one 2ha field rested since feb - and i was thinking of grazing that start of Feb,

hope to have the rest of the grass areas measured by end tuesday
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
cheers @Kiwi Pete -
im liking the option of hay (hayladge) early
its hobby numbers for me still here - but from my basic cals - heaviest ewes are just sub 80kg - so at 1.2% bw for first 60 (dec/jan) and then climbing to 3% for the second 60 (feb/mar) and theres 67 of them (assuming all in lamb) - plus 20 elambs at 50kg (wiggle factor on growth included) @2% -

im working on 85kgdm/day for the whole mob for first 60 days = 5060kgdm and then
and working toward 130kgdm/day for second 60 =7800kgdm
so a total = 12860


the bales claim to be 500kg (im assuming nearer 300- factoring in some of that 80% @hendrebc ) sadly i cant wiegh them atm - but may drag one in the trailer to a weighbridge (unless anyone has an other idea)
so 1 bale alone should last 3 and a bit days - but 67 wont fit round one bale, unless i unroll

ive got one 2ha field rested since feb - and i was thinking of grazing that start of Feb,

hope to have the rest of the grass areas measured by end tuesday
I do think the "grass grows grass" thing holds much more water (sorry) when you're talking the second half of the growing season and wintertime.
This is when we want those big covers and slow grazing here, always mindful of not stressing anything early-on (including the people here)
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
20191201_212204.jpg
20191201_212357.jpg

This is Pete's pasture 'plates-of-meat-er'

Getting a pretty level graze TBH, obviously my plants have had a hiding due to being kept a bit short for a bit long in a cool spring?
But the spiral is going the right way. It isn't all stemmy like our neighbour's grass is.

We had every animal on the place graze this acre in the past 48 hours, and still can't see bare soil or the sides of my soles.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Still got a few out dispite the amount of rain we have had in the last few weeks, six in calf heifers and a dry cow, they are not hurting yet, lucky in this field there is a hardstanding where there was an old shed and we feed them on that.
Kept a good cover on it all summer and its holding up really well I have seen them tramp it up more in October before now
20191128_083914.jpg
 

bitwrx

Member
No sirree.

Many people breeding for a better grass finishing/grazing/performing animal are aiming at breeding in a broader muzzle. Lots of commercial breeds, especially dairy, have more narrow muzzles. It’s a thought that the wider the muzzle the more grass they can get in, the more than can eat. Not so important in a world filled with concentrates but a good goal if one wants to go towards a grass system.

Big barrelled, broad muzzled, wide chest.

A small cow can be more efficient. They can also be less efficient if their conformation is poor. Muzzle and mouth are part of conformation even if they don’t tend to be common points of discussion.
André Voisin had something to say about muzzle breadth I think. IIRC, a cow's grazing time seems to be fairly constant, in order to give adequate time for rumination, so her intake is limited by not only what grass is there (short grass limiting intake rates), but also the harvesting machinery. Wider mouth means fewer mouthfuls per kg fresh material harvested. Ergo, wide mouth good.
 

Blaithin

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Alberta
André Voisin had something to say about muzzle breadth I think. IIRC, a cow's grazing time seems to be fairly constant, in order to give adequate time for rumination, so her intake is limited by not only what grass is there (short grass limiting intake rates), but also the harvesting machinery. Wider mouth means fewer mouthfuls per kg fresh material harvested. Ergo, wide mouth good.
Rumination time is something you don’t tend to see mentioned very often. While cows can and do ruminate standing up, their best rumination is when they are comfortable and this includes laying down. I’ve seen times/storms where animal condition was compromised not because they stopped eating or food was an issue, but because they weren’t ruminating sufficiently. In winter here particularly, one of the greatest benefits of adequate bedding is the cattle will use it for a cud chewing base. They lay comfortably and chew.

In my mind broken mouthed cows suffer not because they can’t graze so much as they can no longer ruminate efficiently. It’s one thing to graze a bolus in your cheek, it’s another to be able to chew it well. Which would be another conformation goal centred around mouths. You want a wide mouth but you also want one that withstands time and has lasting teeth.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Rumination time is something you don’t tend to see mentioned very often. While cows can and do ruminate standing up, their best rumination is when they are comfortable and this includes laying down. I’ve seen times/storms where animal condition was compromised not because they stopped eating or food was an issue, but because they weren’t ruminating sufficiently. In winter here particularly, one of the greatest benefits of adequate bedding is the cattle will use it for a cud chewing base. They lay comfortably and chew.

In my mind broken mouthed cows suffer not because they can’t graze so much as they can no longer ruminate efficiently. It’s one thing to graze a bolus in your cheek, it’s another to be able to chew it well. Which would be another conformation goal centred around mouths. You want a wide mouth but you also want one that withstands time and has lasting teeth.
Yep remember chatting to a friend many years ago about the false economy of keeping cattle too dirty whilst housed from the cudding perspective. Think the dairy boys consider it more with cubicle design etc.

What you say about broken mouth cows and cudding is something we often find with sheep too.
 

Sharpy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yep remember chatting to a friend many years ago about the false economy of keeping cattle too dirty whilst housed from the cudding perspective. Think the dairy boys consider it more with cubicle design etc.

What you say about broken mouth cows and cudding is something we often find with sheep too.
Years ago we had 6 older cows that were a bit lean to spend the winter in the byre, so they were to go in a pen in the shed. They were bedded with fines (sawdust made from waste timber) but after a month we scraped the wet stuff off the top to expose the drier stuff underneath 3 times a week to save on bedding till we hit the floor, then bedded them for a month. We did save on bedding but while on the scrape month the cows ate far more silage and lost weight. They lay down far far less on the scraped month and generally looked poorer. We didn't repeat the scrape month as it was clear that it was false economy. The old saying "a dry bed is half fed" is clearly very true.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Yep remember chatting to a friend many years ago about the false economy of keeping cattle too dirty whilst housed from the cudding perspective. Think the dairy boys consider it more with cubicle design etc.

What you say about broken mouth cows and cudding is something we often find with sheep too.
A good bed is worth a bucket of grub
 

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