"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
TBO I am not very good with plant identification in grassland, shall have to get a book and go for a wonder
cut some keep we have a few days ago that has never been intensively farmed and not re-seeded in 50 years, there is allsorts of plants in it allot of them I don't know, it was alive with insects when I cut it
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
TBO I am not very good with plant identification in grassland, shall have to get a book and go for a wonder
cut some keep we have a few days ago that has never been intensively farmed and not re-seeded in 50 years, there is allsorts of plants in it allot of them I don't know, it was alive with insects when I cut it
Im in a similar position i know some of the more obvious ones but not all.of them. Id quote like a book that tells helps you identify what all the plants in an old sward could be as well as all the varieties of grass. If anyone knows of a book like thst id appreciate a recommendation
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Some farmers are trying to grow it while others are spraying it:rolleyes:
I don't know if the stuff you buy the seed for is a different variety but the cows dont seem over keen on the wild stuff we have
It don't grow so much down here to wet for it perhaps but on the hill it can take over had to be careful with it in hay it could soon start to heat if it wasn't dry
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
I don't know if the stuff you buy the seed for is a different variety but the cows dont seem over keen on the wild stuff we have
It don't grow so much down here to wet for it perhaps but on the hill it can take over had to be careful with it in hay it could soon start to heat if it wasn't dry
Cow's seem to go for it here, not sure of the different varieties other than narrow leaf & broad leaf plantain. Will check if a variety of plantain is listed on grass mix.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I mainly sow Boston and Tonic plantain but sheep will easily graze them out if you graze too low too often, apparently.

They are big, leafy, upright plants and really like to get a good foot tall before you graze them, just like any herb really. Amazing nutrition over summer when the grasses are on honeymoon.. I just oversowed it and it came away strongly.

I also find stock will make a beeline for the seedheads so I try to use them to spread the seed, when possible.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
There are different varieties of plantain, have used Tonic in the past & this year using Endurance , have always been pleased how it grows here .
Not sure how different they are to wild varieties @Henarar ?
As Kp has just said their big leafy upright plants so think their more leafy than wild plantain!?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
The wild broadleaf ones I have are very low and dwarfish compared to the newer types, and the leaves are quite thick and dull by comparison. I have them all over the farm, it even grows in the yard which is blue rock.
I don't know if the stuff you buy the seed for is a different variety but the cows dont seem over keen on the wild stuff we have
It don't grow so much down here to wet for it perhaps but on the hill it can take over had to be careful with it in hay it could soon start to heat if it wasn't dry
It really does seem to like a bit of slope and sunshine, well the newer ones seem to. I suppose most deeper rooted plants will naturally favour areas that stay drier - I am often amused at some of the "herbal ley mixes" promoted on here as the species in them are really quite unsuitable for wet area persistence.... however I bet they are great for seed sales as a result.

Plantain is a native of South Africa, or so I have read somewhere.... related to bananas and the plantains that look like little bananas.... but I really like the taste of it all the same, tastes quite "nutty" and the stock love it too.

NZ soils are low in copper but one thing that stands out on our tests is the very high cobalt levels - I wonder if it accumulates from the liquid seaweed applications?
The neighbours soil tests are so different even just over the fence they are very different, his are very high in aluminium and phosphate compared to here.

Probably it has had much more superphosphate over the years
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I would say a general herbal ley is good to start with to find out what will grow on your own farm, but once you know what will grow it's cheaper to add what you want to mixes.
Good call.
They are usually all pretty expensive little seeds, compared to grass.
One plant I am keen to gather seeds from is the humble sow thistle - one of the best plants on the farm according to my stock.
They will walk through anything to get at it.

Maori call it 'Puha' and it is one of the things that they will go far to gather for adding to cooking - 'puha and porkbone' boiled up in a big pot

Anyway a fair bit grows around the yard and section here so I will try to grab as much seed as possible this summer and put it in a bag for when I am flicking out my seed mix.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
There are different varieties of plantain, have used Tonic in the past & this year using Endurance , have always been pleased how it grows here .
Not sure how different they are to wild varieties @Henarar ?
As Kp has just said their big leafy upright plants so think their more leafy than wild plantain!?
this is narrow leaf [hence the name lambs tongue ]and they don't get that big
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Screenshot_20180613-035015.jpg

Here is Endurance plantain I think. Maybe Boston. Forgot how bloody dry it looked!
Screenshot_20180613-035218.jpg

Pictures taken on the same day, as you can tell it doesn't give a hoot about hot and dry conditions.... it wasn't ever drilled in this paddock, just carted in via animal guts and deposited.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
milk thistle ?
Yep that's the stuff.
Like a dandelion that was commissioned by a gov't department!

I remember sitting on the lav one day and trying to work out what the dickens that sound was, the few pet lambs we had on the dairy farm had broken out of the foot-deep ryegrass pasture and were loudly chomping the milk thistles that grew out in the wasteland behind our new house.

Strange animals, they completely stuffed a line of leyland cyprus and were always busting to get out and into my fine selection of weeds (house had only been built two years prior and no lawn sown out the back) but it was always the sow thistles that got levelled before anything else got a glance.
Then it was nettles, those red dead nettles, and then a funny little weedy thing I don't know the name of - it has a deep purple flower and grows in old lawns etc, looks like a mini hops almost...
But I have always been an observer of animal behaviour, and ryegrass is at the bottom of their list.

It always struck me as odd that it was at the top of the farmer's list!!

Have you noticed all the comments lately that long grass has "no nutritional value"?
What a load of crap!! I don't think anyone has actually had the balls or inclination to test this one out, higher fibre and lower digestibility perhaps...

So if it has no value, why do people bale it up?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
no that's what you get blatted with when you stand behind them after they have been eating short grass
Or ad-lib silage :ROFLMAO:
I think I am going to have to dag my sheep :( they haven't been dagged for months so....

I had my silage pit (hole in the ground, el cheapo silage :) ) fenced off as the cattle would push over my 1600 neatly stacked tyres - and have fenced my sheep in there to get the grass going again, they are loving their silage diet.
But, what a mess, they had clean bums before this.
A diet of no-endophyte grass and silage has really blown them out :D but they are looking great all the same.
And in-lamb, going by the fact the ram sits by himself :)

Really quite impressed by how my silage has lasted, it is going on 3 years old now and still beautifully sweet and yellow :love: cattle are really enjoying being out of the weather and fully fed too.

I would put up a picture but should scrape out first, I am waiting for my load of woodshavings to come and will bed them up.
Hopefully in the next day or two. :rolleyes:
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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