"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Henarar]

See why I am breeding them with bare bums, @hendrebc?View attachment 681622
Dorper X on the left is a keeper not much extra wool on her.

@farmerclare would be after you docking that tight

 

[Kiwi Pete]

You have them inside in the middle of summer ? how very progressive

I did for a bit GUTH had palpitations, remember?

Well, its still the same bedding but unfortunately its time has come. Thanks to all the seaweed juice etc and being dried right out, it doesn't smell at all, but it is getting a layer of manure that is now sitting on the crust and that says it is time for a dung-out
I plan to not remove all the chip this time, I have access to a little skidsteer so plan to just take it down to the clean chip and then try some woodshavings from the local mill. It was about 14 inches deep.

Will keep you posted (not an intentional pun) on how it goes - it is basically planings from when they buzz the planks, so should be more absorbent than chip but not go as gluggy as sawdust, hopefully.
Time will tell, it is only $20/cu. metre so I will get a load and try it.
If it gets wet, I'll try more!

Still unsure about these cattle.
They are round, they are about 600kg... but given the beef price has dropped and I can't get them killed........ I don't know whether to just hang onto them until spring and buy calves then? Or quit them now?



Price will go up in spring. Same with calves, I expect, and money is made by buying right

 

[Henarar]

They are round, they are about 600kg

Sounds like my finishing skills

 

[hendrebc]

600kg id get them gone if they look finished. But thats here id get penalised if they kill out too heavy about 650kg would be ideal but id send them at 600 if it meant i didnt have ti house them i find they go backwards for a bit if i house them and it takes time to put it back.
But i dont want the blame if thats the wrong thing to do

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I did for a bit GUTH had palpitations, remember?

Well, its still the same bedding but unfortunately its time has come. Thanks to all the seaweed juice etc and being dried right out, it doesn't smell at all, but it is getting a layer of manure that is now sitting on the crust and that says it is time for a dung-out
I plan to not remove all the chip this time, I have access to a little skidsteer so plan to just take it down to the clean chip and then try some woodshavings from the local mill. It was about 14 inches deep.

Will keep you posted (not an intentional pun) on how it goes - it is basically planings from when they buzz the planks, so should be more absorbent than chip but not go as gluggy as sawdust, hopefully.
Time will tell, it is only $20/cu. metre so I will get a load and try it.
If it gets wet, I'll try more!

Still unsure about these cattle.
They are round, they are about 600kg... but given the beef price has dropped and I can't get them killed........ I don't know whether to just hang onto them until spring and buy calves then? Or quit them now?



Price will go up in spring. Same with calves, I expect, and money is made by buying right

How much has trade dropped?

 

[Breakthru]

Cow's seem to go for it here, not sure of the different varieties other than narrow leaf & broad leaf plantain. Will check if a variety of plantain is listed on grass mix.

Don't dig it up and reseed just go out in the spring when its wet and either harrow or very shallow disc it until its black. Broadcast some new seed across it and roll shut. One it will stand horses or cows without poaching and fits with Groundswell principles of not destroying the underlying mycelial fungi etc.
Just introduce some more productive grasses/clovers without destroying the benefits of what you already have.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

How much has trade dropped?

Enough to trim down a fairly slender margin...
Should be around $5.25- $5.45/kg and is at $5 - so times say 285kg it's worth having...
if it comes back up, of course!
It is fairly high, all the same, say even an extra 15 cents would pay for their b&b for 10 weeks OK.
Hard to know which and where the gain is to be made... these or the future ones?
They could put on a bit more weight all the same

In the meantime they haven't rung to say the truck is coming to take them away, hehe hoho haha, or they would have ideally been gone in April
Thanks to m. bovis and culling a whole lot of extra cows the meatworks are shafting their main shareholders ie beef and lamb farmers, so the dairy culls can be accomodated and save them being overwintered (those herds will be going nowhere)

On the other hand, I have probably earned an extra $5k this month by a longer season in the BeefHouse... helped by a fairly poor grass season locally.
Have seen an awful lot of beef scummier than my own, and that is heartening

We just get paid on a per kg basis @hendrebc - a steer 450kg or 800kg would still be paid the same per kilo, and a bit less if outside their range but you don't get hammered. Some of the wee bulls may be too wee to meet their top price but not a massive reaming.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

@farmerclare will like the fact that she is dead right re. tail length...
This group were the 'butt' of an experiment as docking is something I want to eliminate as part of my holistic management plan. I thought some shorter than ideal tails would help us assess the lack of wool around the tail, and tail width a little better if I could see from afar.

But as you can see, these rams stay pretty clean even undocked, thanks to the breeding and selection I think it can safely be said docking is unnecessary in future.

The ewes are bred to have that clean patch, and these rams have never seen a dosing gun or a needle - this is the way I want to go... a bit like the current "machinery too dear" thread the cheapest thing to do is try to avoid doing work where possible... especially sheep work and tractor work. Sheep returns dictate that the lower your input, the better your hourly rate and margins are- sure a good year is nice but not something I rely on.
If I can cut my tractor hours, my animal health bills, and my time spent covered in lanolin then I will go for it!

Woolly sheep are good, in that they don't get sunburnt or freeze, but it really doesn't pay to have sheep with it in the wrong places unless dag score is low, I would be a hypocrite if I bred shitty sheep that needed monthly wormers and injections to perform, wouldn't I?

A good farm system should not need band-aids, I don't need medication to be healthy and so why should my livestock?
I shouldn't need to have short lush pastures for my sheep, at the cost of my soil either, they need to fit MY system or they can go.

 

[Farmer Roy]

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Did you have an interesting chat? Any ideas yet on likely price per head?

 

[Farmer Roy]

Did you have an interesting chat? Any ideas yet on likely price per head?

Sorry to disappoint, but I lifted that off Facebook
As I understand, they aren't commercial release yet ?
Very interested though

 

[Treg]

Don't dig it up and reseed just go out in the spring when its wet and either harrow or very shallow disc it until its black. Broadcast some new seed across it and roll shut. One it will stand horses or cows without poaching and fits with Groundswell principles of not destroying the underlying mycelial fungi etc.
Just introduce some more productive grasses/clovers without destroying the benefits of what you already have.

Have tried working to permaculture ideas for several years but just don't seem to get good results.
Spreading clover seed on with composted manure was probably the most successful.
I do lightly disc a sacrifice field every couple of years to get seed into it but still doesn't achieve the same results as a full reseed.
Have tried chain harrowing until there's a bit of a tilth but didn't find that successful.
Sad to say I've gone back to ploughing a small acreage every year , the difference it's made to the livestock is amazing.
I've been on farms where they have bare patches (or more space between plants) so can see overseeding would work on those farms. (I don't seem to get bare patches).
Also this spring I've been taking lots of soil samples for the local Ag college & I have more worms per hole dug in this springs reseed than 25yr old leys!? Why would that be?

 

[Henarar]

View attachment 681766
@farmerclare will like the fact that she is dead right re. tail length...
This group were the 'butt' of an experiment as docking is something I want to eliminate as part of my holistic management plan. I thought some shorter than ideal tails would help us assess the lack of wool around the tail, and tail width a little better if I could see from afar.

But as you can see, these rams stay pretty clean even undocked, thanks to the breeding and selection I think it can safely be said docking is unnecessary in future.

The ewes are bred to have that clean patch, and these rams have never seen a dosing gun or a needle - this is the way I want to go... a bit like the current "machinery too dear" thread the cheapest thing to do is try to avoid doing work where possible... especially sheep work and tractor work. Sheep returns dictate that the lower your input, the better your hourly rate and margins are- sure a good year is nice but not something I rely on.
If I can cut my tractor hours, my animal health bills, and my time spent covered in lanolin then I will go for it!View attachment 681770
Woolly sheep are good, in that they don't get sunburnt or freeze, but it really doesn't pay to have sheep with it in the wrong places unless dag score is low, I would be a hypocrite if I bred shitty sheep that needed monthly wormers and injections to perform, wouldn't I?

A good farm system should not need band-aids, I don't need medication to be healthy and so why should my livestock?
I shouldn't need to have short lush pastures for my sheep, at the cost of my soil either, they need to fit MY system or they can go.

I see what your getting at now
Why not go for shedders ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I see what your getting at now
Why not go for shedders ?

I just can't count on decent enough weather to lamb them - unless it's middle of summer, and that would interfere with my busy time for contracting etc.
So I like some wool on them just because it can snow anytime from.... well anytime NZ is hugely unpredictable.
If I lambed inside it would be different but I plan to have a big bunch of calves inside instead - sheep are just a necessary part of my system, not my main focus

But they would be ideal, if I could combine the right traits from these and still have their fertility and worm resistance, I will try a Wiltshire in there at some point too.

These lambs are currently handling about 3000 EPG, last FEC I did.
Last thread I read on here folk were reaching for the dosing gun at 250

Must be plenty of money around, is all I can say.... easily bred for. It just takes time and the ability to not intervene IMO .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Have tried working to permaculture ideas for several years but just don't seem to get good results.
Spreading clover seed on with composted manure was probably the most successful.
I do lightly disc a sacrifice field every couple of years to get seed into it but still doesn't achieve the same results as a full reseed.
Have tried chain harrowing until there's a bit of a tilth but didn't find that successful.
Sad to say I've gone back to ploughing a small acreage every year , the difference it's made to the livestock is amazing.
I've been on farms where they have bare patches (or more space between plants) so can see overseeding would work on those farms. (I don't seem to get bare patches).
Also this spring I've been taking lots of soil samples for the local Ag college & I have more worms per hole dug in this springs reseed than 25yr old leys!? Why would that be?

I have found worms to be here today, gone tomorrow, back next week! They actually do migrate behind the grazing stock if you graze areas close to each other, but I have often been surprised when digging.

Obviously food supply influences their cycle greatly, and possibly we graze reseeds "better" than older areas?

Not sure, it has often puzzled me, too.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I just can't count on decent enough weather to lamb them - unless it's middle of summer, and that would interfere with my busy time for contracting etc.
So I like some wool on them just because it can snow anytime from.... well anytime NZ is hugely unpredictable.
If I lambed inside it would be different but I plan to have a big bunch of calves inside instead - sheep are just a necessary part of my system, not my main focus

But they would be ideal, if I could combine the right traits from these and still have their fertility and worm resistance, I will try a Wiltshire in there at some point too.

These lambs are currently handling about 3000 EPG, last FEC I did.
Last thread I read on here folk were reaching for the dosing gun at 250

Must be plenty of money around, is all I can say.... easily bred for. It just takes time and the ability to not intervene IMO .

the few shedders that weve got ... lambed out in the snow and frost this year and with the now good weather = long sunny days / strong sunlight in my part of the world there is no skin problems.... Exlana

 

[hendrebc]

the few shedders that weve got ... lambed out in the snow and frost this year and with the now good weather = long sunny days / strong sunlight in my part of the world there is no skin problems.... Exlana

Do the exlana lambs have a decent birth coat? That would be my main worry with them

 

[Bury the Trash]

Do the exlana lambs have a decent birth coat? That would be my main worry with them

Yes most definitely. I was pleasantly surprised .

 

[hendrebc]

Yes most definitely. I was pleasantly surprised .

Thats another vote in tjeir favour for here then. Any bad things you can think of about them? Always good to hear domeones opinion who isnt totally biased one way or another. So far they are amazing (shedding sheep breeders) or sh!t (usually sheep shearers)

 

[Bury the Trash]

Thats another vote in tjeir favour for here then. Any bad things you can think of about them? Always good to hear domeones opinion who isnt totally biased one way or another. So far they are amazing (shedding sheep breeders) or sh!t (usually sheep shearers)

The only thing so far is that quite a lot of the lambs (early March born ) are shedding so i expect the kiling ones of those ( whethers and any ewe lambs not kept as replacements ) will be devalued slightly because of the skin value...
but anyway they will / have shown less (none actually) blowfly trouble in those lambs like the adults of course
.and the ewe lambs will be good shedders as adults i wouldve thought, so proves the ram i bought was good in that respect also...(i think)
In the field the lambs look leggy but when handled you cant feel their backbone atm they look different/nice close to in the yard....

Firstly i want good females (that i can breed myself) anyway for my flock replacement so good genetics for having lambs /rearing ...worm resistance ...good legs feet .mouths .
and shedding could be a big bonus but thats so new to me it will take a year or 2 to see on that score ...
I definitely like them thus
far