"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

how much per acre is that ? how long do you think it will last ?

$2000, 40 acres worth of seed
... on about 36 acres

Hmmmm, the lasting bit will be the interesting part.
Similar mixes around the district have maybe got to 6-8 tonnes of DM per hectare for the first grazing, then 2.5-4 tonnes on subsequent grazings, so maybe 16TDM before it's mainly pasture again?

I'm working on maybe 5TDM over 15ha =75 dry tonnes of feed in the first grazing? Could be more or less.
About as much as a reasonable silage cut?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Why I Made the Switch to Stockers – Profit and Flexibility

About three years ago, I decided I would try my hand at raising some purchased stocker calves. I had kept brood cows on several different farms around my part of central North Carolina for over 10 …

onpasture.com

 

[Henarar]

$2000, 40 acres worth of seed
... on about 36 acres

Hmmmm, the lasting bit will be the interesting part.
Similar mixes around the district have maybe got to 6-8 tonnes of DM per hectare for the first grazing, then 2.5-4 tonnes on subsequent grazings, so maybe 16TDM before it's mainly pasture again?

I'm working on maybe 5TDM over 15ha =75 dry tonnes of feed in the first grazing? Could be more or less.
About as much as a reasonable silage cut?

TDM ?

 

[Henarar]

$2000, 40 acres worth of seed
... on about 36 acres

Hmmmm, the lasting bit will be the interesting part.
Similar mixes around the district have maybe got to 6-8 tonnes of DM per hectare for the first grazing, then 2.5-4 tonnes on subsequent grazings, so maybe 16TDM before it's mainly pasture again?

I'm working on maybe 5TDM over 15ha =75 dry tonnes of feed in the first grazing? Could be more or less.
About as much as a reasonable silage cut?

I was just interested in how persistent some of it was ? is it all annual or will some of it go on for a few years or self seed ?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

TDM ?

Total dry matter?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

TDM ?

Tonnes of Dry Matter, a dry cow eats one every 8 weeks or so

 

[Farmer Roy]

https://www.facebook.com/1732951633627025/posts/2502337490021765

 

[Farmer Roy]

https://www.facebook.com/1732951633627025/posts/2507817789473735

 

[Rob Garrett]

View attachment 858039
Received the invoice for the seed today, the top mix is for 15ha and the bottom one is for 2ha (to save y'all looking, the second one is missing lupins and has an extra kilo of buckwheat in place)

Thought it may be interesting, even only as a rough guide as to relative seed costs, and rates.

I certainly wouldn't advise everyone to sow at these high rates, 73kg/ha is high for a covercrop, 50kg would be plenty but:

Not sure how effective the spray would be
Lots of birds here (LOTS)
Uncertain of adequate rainfall (we got lucky there)
Slugs, springtails etc
Average to low fertility

Have I got the maths right?
NZ$1,989 before tax for 17ha = $117/ha (roughly GB£57.72/ha) @ 73kg/ha = $1.60/kg (GB£0.79/kg)
Just priced up an off the shelf cover mix:
English vetch3.00 kg (3) certified
Antoninskie rye4.82 kg (4.82) certified
Mascani winter oats2.00 kg (2) certified
Interval hybrid rape/kale0.30 kg (0.3) certified
Samson stubble turnip0.15 kg (0.15) certified
Rondo stubble turnip0.15 kg (0.15) certified
Toro Fodder Radish0.50 kg (0.5) certified
Structurator tillage radish0.01 kg (0.01) certified
Contea crimson clover0.03 kg (0.03) certified
Natra phacelia0.04 kg (0.04)
11kg per acre (27kg/ha)

GB£17.48/acre (£1.60/kg)
Double the price/kg of your mix!

 

[Farmer Roy]

I thought $120 / ha was getting expensive . . .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I thought $120 / ha was getting expensive . . .

Likewise, well, just for a cover it is expensive!

But, compared to brassicas + fert it's cheap
And hopefully it can build as much soil as a monocrop would lose - these "oh but we can't" guys in the chorus do have a valid point re soil erosion

 

[onesiedale]

Have I got the maths right?
NZ$1,989 before tax for 17ha = $117/ha (roughly GB£57.72/ha) @ 73kg/ha = $1.60/kg (GB£0.79/kg)
Just priced up an off the shelf cover mix:
English vetch3.00 kg (3) certified
Antoninskie rye4.82 kg (4.82) certified
Mascani winter oats2.00 kg (2) certified
Interval hybrid rape/kale0.30 kg (0.3) certified
Samson stubble turnip0.15 kg (0.15) certified
Rondo stubble turnip0.15 kg (0.15) certified
Toro Fodder Radish0.50 kg (0.5) certified
Structurator tillage radish0.01 kg (0.01) certified
Contea crimson clover0.03 kg (0.03) certified
Natra phacelia0.04 kg (0.04)
11kg per acre (27kg/ha)

GB£17.48/acre (£1.60/kg)
Double the price/kg of your mix!

I'd done some basic calcs like you, and come to the same conclusions.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I'd done some basic calcs like you, and come to the same conclusions.

Bear in mind that very few of these seeds will be "certified, tested" seeds - it's similar to comparing the cost of "Skyfall" to seed out of someone's silo

Something like an AberClover would be nigh on 3× the price of the VNS clovers I chuck on, I never really answered @Henarar but these are annuals.... maybe some of the species will reappear? Vetch may, sunnies and the odd oat?

It makes no sense to me to pay more, as I wouldn't pay $5/litre of diesel when the $1.12 stuff burns just the same. It's a 'consumable item'

That said, I could have added a heap of perennial stuff to the mix which is where a lot of the cost is.... but I don't want to do that yet, rather I'd like to try this by itself in case I absolutely wreck patches of it in wet times.
If I was going to add grasses and herbs etc etc I'd probably have used a herbicide or two to really "kill it" and ploughed some of it, limed it etc
It could get really costly!

 

[onesiedale]

Have I got the maths right?
NZ$1,989 before tax for 17ha = $117/ha (roughly GB£57.72/ha) @ 73kg/ha = $1.60/kg (GB£0.79/kg)
Just priced up an off the shelf cover mix:
English vetch3.00 kg (3) certified
Antoninskie rye4.82 kg (4.82) certified
Mascani winter oats2.00 kg (2) certified
Interval hybrid rape/kale0.30 kg (0.3) certified
Samson stubble turnip0.15 kg (0.15) certified
Rondo stubble turnip0.15 kg (0.15) certified
Toro Fodder Radish0.50 kg (0.5) certified
Structurator tillage radish0.01 kg (0.01) certified
Contea crimson clover0.03 kg (0.03) certified
Natra phacelia0.04 kg (0.04)
11kg per acre (27kg/ha)

GB£17.48/acre (£1.60/kg)
Double the price/kg of your mix!

Who's supplying this off the shelf mix?

 

[Crofter64]

Have I got the maths right?
NZ$1,989 before tax for 17ha = $117/ha (roughly GB£57.72/ha) @ 73kg/ha = $1.60/kg (GB£0.79/kg)
Just priced up an off the shelf cover mix:
English vetch3.00 kg (3) certified
Antoninskie rye4.82 kg (4.82) certified
Mascani winter oats2.00 kg (2) certified
Interval hybrid rape/kale0.30 kg (0.3) certified
Samson stubble turnip0.15 kg (0.15) certified
Rondo stubble turnip0.15 kg (0.15) certified
Toro Fodder Radish0.50 kg (0.5) certified
Structurator tillage radish0.01 kg (0.01) certified
Contea crimson clover0.03 kg (0.03) certified
Natra phacelia0.04 kg (0.04)
11kg per acre (27kg/ha)

GB£17.48/acre (£1.60/kg)
Double the price/kg of your mix!

I have priced a lot of items in £ vs. Canadian dollars and always find the U.K. prices mich higher than ours, which are , in turn, more than U.S prices.

 

[Treg]

Who's supplying this off the shelf mix?

Cotswolds seeds have a similar mix for £17ish , that maybe where Rob means?

 

[CornishTone]

Cotswolds seeds have a similar mix for £17ish , that maybe where Rob means?

Was sat at a kitchen table in Hampshire this week looking at a Cotswolds mix that was very similar, if not the same, as that one for about that price.

Cotswolds are pricey but they are great at the whole “pick n’ mix” thing. You can really let your imagination run away with you a bit, have a play and see what grows and what doesn’t without having a someone “offering” their opinion. Much more fun and interesting. Plus they produce heaps of good information that’s freely available.

We tend to use Roskilly & Henwood Seeds in Liskeard for most of our seed though. Better to support the local bloke really, where possible.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Gotta support the locals.
I really enjoyed this particular "mix design" because Simon and I both had a pretty good concept each of rates and it turned out we came up with the same answers!

I've known him for 33 years, and he is now the local area agronomist for Advance Ag, he really "gets" this sorta stuff - as well as the conventional stuff - but nobody right around here has planted much [diverse cool-season annuals] yet so it's still a trial.

I put a spade in to check rooting as it's 'always kinda slow to get going', on your own place and wow, the roots are strong!!
A good range of things are popping up now, will get out there tomorrow in the daylight for a proper look.

 

[Henarar]

That said, I could have added a heap of perennial stuff to the mix which is where a lot of the cost is.... but I don't want to do that yet, rather I'd like to try this by itself in case I absolutely wreck patches of it in wet times.
If I was going to add grasses and herbs etc etc I'd probably have used a herbicide or two to really "kill it" and ploughed some of it, limed it etc
It could get really costly!

What would the reason be to plough some of it ?
Why would you kill it ? is there something there you don't like ?

 

[Rob Garrett]

Who's supplying this off the shelf mix?

Ten out of ten for Treg & CornishTone! Cotswold grazable cover mix. I get on well with them and that Sam knows his stuff, only issue is the cost, maybe it's another barrier to UK farmers doing more cover cropping.

I am not too fussed if the seed is certified or not, even tried ringing round for some screenings (grist or weed seeds) but could not locate any. Thinking of adding some home saved pea/barley and spring oat to the Cotswold mix, upping the seed rate a bit say 15kg/acre (37kg/ha), still light compared to Kiwi Pete but this is going into ex stubble turnip ground in May, so less competition than into grass sward.