"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[bitwrx]

He’s in Canada. Would the UK be the only country that bans dead stock being buried where it falls? Or is it a “European” thing?

Doesn’t make much sense to me. We are the only species in the eco systems that doesn’t return our waste nutrients to the environment from where they came, both in terms of our sh1t and our bodies, and now the UK ensures that livestock nutrients are being burnt and wasted instead as well, adding more cost and paperwork to an already burdensome system. Sure, it stops the tiny minority putting it into the food chain, supposedly, but I would think the system is beyond that being a problem by now.

I’m not U.K based and I live in the middle of nowhere.

Some of your rules and regs really do go against logic, don't they?
We just have a couple of big holes dug for waste - I know I should tan more hides but they tend to get discarded.
Apart from a couple of unlucky cattle, and a few dead lambs we have few dead stock, but paying a knackerman would soon add up

Thanks all.

Composting animal matter does seem like a good use of the nutrients within. I wonder if there are actually any real issues with it, when done properly? (In saying that I'm aware of seeing the odd decent sized bone go flying out the back of the spreader, so it doesn't always get done properly. I'm also aware of finding the odd sheep carcase with a topper, so collecting fallen stock for incineration doesn't alwyal get done properly either.)

 

[Farmer Roy]

Err, lunatic cattle
Rogue sheep
Bad mothers / lambers / calvers
Livestock with bad temperaments
Fence jumpers, ones dangerous to work with . . .
We don't need to put up with all these negative characteristics & id suggest it is POOR animal welfare to keep them
As Pete said earlier, it's not very good welfare if the jump a fence into the path of a 60 tonne B Double truck . . .

No sentiment. Just cull those fûckers out. On a truck. Cut their heads off.
That's how we keep cattle behind 3 wires of barb or 1 Hotwire
That's how we can safely work mobs of 100's in close confinement in cattleyards
That's how one man can look after 2000 sheep

 

[Farmer Roy]

Thanks all.

Composting animal matter does seem like a good use of the nutrients within. I wonder if there are actually any real issues with it, when done properly? (In saying that I'm aware of seeing the odd decent sized bone go flying out the back of the spreader, so it doesn't always get done properly. I'm also aware of finding the odd sheep carcase with a topper, so collecting fallen stock for incineration doesn't alwyal get done properly either.)

Err, the odd decent sized human bone comes out of the crematorium as well . . .
We run the ashes through a grinder . . .

 

[Ukjay]

Yup.

Interesting.

 

[Ukjay]

Err, the odd decent sized human bone comes out of the crematorium as well . . .
We run the ashes through a grinder . . .

Thats why I am struggling to get my head around the muck heap scenario.

 

[dt995]

On the subject of composting fallen stock, I remember reading through this thread a couple of years ago.

https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/extreme-composting.342651/

ISTR whole cows going in, and a grinder for any residual bones.

 

[Farmer Roy]

This big fûcker could jump over my head if he wanted to, but it's never occurred to him to step over a Hotwire, even when there is no power

 

[Farmer Roy]

Thats why I am struggling to get my head around the muck heap scenario.

The wild pigs make short work of any fallen animals . . .

 

[CornishTone]

Thanks all.

Composting animal matter does seem like a good use of the nutrients within. I wonder if there are actually any real issues with it, when done properly? (In saying that I'm aware of seeing the odd decent sized bone go flying out the back of the spreader, so it doesn't always get done properly. I'm also aware of finding the odd sheep carcase with a topper, so collecting fallen stock for incineration doesn't alwyal get done properly either.)

Thats why I am struggling to get my head around the muck heap scenario.

Its all fairly academic if it’s illegal, surely!
Bones are obviously going to take a lot longer. A 12 month compost isn’t going to do much... ask any serial killer!!!!

 

[CornishTone]

The wild pigs make short work of any fallen animals . . .

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Knowing my luck, I would get a frikin nutjob. Local farmer was banged up quite bad recently, and although he is aging a bit - it does show the dangers with cattle for the untrained



Nature is remarkable when you open your eyes to it, look deeper to see how things tick. For us, this is part of the draw - work with vs against nature, because nature normally wins in the end, no matter what we try and cheat out of her.

Every day is a learning day!

Nature went to Sandhurst: never fight fair

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

They aren't all lunatics - some people are just reluctant to cull, for various reasons.

I guess the concept of "welfare" means everything must have equal opportunity to die of old age?

People first around here, if I have concerns about dangerous animals or damage to the environment, then away with them!

However, sentiment often overrides direction.

Not too sure - I just put it there and they roll in it they seem to associate itching with rolling. We don't have an issue with flystrike (most years) down here but that is due to pre-lamb shearing I think. The neighbours use pour-on for lice, if I see his sheep by the boundary I just shift mine on and then go back if need be.
Same with cattle on the boundary, my neighbour always puts his cattle next to mine so I have asked him to let me know otherwise his jump in.

I've never had animals jump out, they always jump in

To me "welfare" is all about quality of life, not quantity, in any species.

That includes us.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I suppose you need to base numbers on what the farm can carry on a "normal" year.
This one is a challenging one & depends alot on the weather in the next few weeks if your going to have to buy in expensive feed for those extra 10 cow' s then personally I'd get rid of them sooner than later or edge your bets 5 now , another 5 in a month after some rain .

Good advice of course, but the other consideration clouding my judgement is my intention is to begin a health testing program this winter. I could potentially have Johnes cows to cull out.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Talking of animals with no respect for fences
Years ago a mate of mine got into Dorper sheep. They were always getting out & he was getting sick of phone calls from his neighbours

So, he sat down in the paddock & watched the sheep. He realised it was only a couple of ringleaders who were testing the fence & going through - the rest just followed like, well, like sheep

Solution ? He shot the ringleaders & put them in his freeezer to eat. Problem solved
It's all about culling for the characteristics YOU want

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Talking of animals with no respect for fences
Years ago a mate of mine got into Dorper sheep. They were always getting out & he was getting sick of phone calls from his neighbours

So, he sat down in the paddock & watched the sheep. He realised it was only a couple of ringleaders who were testing the fence & going through - the rest just followed like, well, like sheep

Solution ? He shot the ringleaders & put them in his freeezer to eat. Problem solved
It's all about culling for the characteristics YOU want

Clearly had no idea about farming if he was willing to actually watch his stock and learn from them

 

[Ukjay]

The wild pigs make short work of any fallen animals . . .

Yes, and some fallen people in certain sectors allegedly.

 

[Ukjay]

Its all fairly academic if it’s illegal, surely!
Bones are obviously going to take a lot longer. A 12 month compost isn’t going to do much... ask any serial killer!!!!

Yes, but some countries still appear to be doing it, thus another learning opportunity.

 

[Treg]

Good advice of course, but the other consideration clouding my judgement is my intention is to begin a health testing program this winter. I could potentially have Johnes cows to cull out.

Would it pay to bring testing forward to the next couple weeks, so while vet is there can check for empty cow's & have a good clear out? I usually fit in health testing with Tb test so I realise it's extra work when cow's are out.
Walked silage fields this morning & they gone backwards from last week so will have to do something myself! Couple of heifers I don't think have held to service so will get them p'd & off they may go.

 

[Farmer Roy]

apparently teeth go straight through - you have to deal with them first . . .

 

[CornishTone]

apparently teeth go straight through - you have to deal with them first . . .

And the hair... for the sake of the piggies digestive system. See, we are all learning!