"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
That’s something I’m getting my head around at the moment. Spraying off a grass field in the spring to be able to give you some good quality summer feed when the grass doesn’t do much for a month and a half from mid July and cattle growth rates are always disappointing this could then give you a chance for an autumn reseed. Neighbour did it on some arable ground this year and it worked really well.
The thing we found was, with good management 😉 and no damage, it came back even better the next year, we talked about putting turnips back in but couldn't really see the point as the herbs really hit their straps.
It lasted there longer than I did, anyway; pleased to see the end of dairy cows, Minda, LIC, and staff
 

Rob Garrett

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Derbyshire UK
id struggle to keep my 29 head on my land for much above 22 days even more so if it went wet as the wastage would be so much more than what they are eating with short foggy grass like you have let alone 44 head.
my next 20 dayish round ill be roughly 0.5 acre daily moves depending on grass growth between now and starting
Change of plan! Good dry fields with shelter from Westerly wind, but thinking I will take what's there now while it's dry, can always lead a few bales out for another round later.

44 head on quarter of an acre roughly, will see what's left in morning.
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Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Change of plan! Good dry fields with shelter from Westerly wind, but thinking I will take what's there now while it's dry, can always lead a few bales out for another round later.

44 head on quarter of an acre roughly, will see what's left in morning.
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Awesome. Keen to see how they go.
As per my post above we stuck to that .1ha base cell size over winter as it made the math easier, on a sh!t day they would get fractionally more and in good conditions we'd steal it back.

Because I'm a sadist, I'd generally give them their ¼ acre in ¼'s, but if it was really rough then it would be less more often. Doesn't mean you need to!
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
What would happen if you grazed so you had the dying 4th leaf in the rotation as well and used that to replace the hay? They say you shouldn't let the 4th leaf come up or it kills the first leaf in the tiller and decreases the quality of the grazing. But otf your having to feed hay anyway when you graze at 3rd leaf stage it might not be a bad thing to let it come through?

Have been thinking the same thing here. Instead of growing turnips for winter feed get them in much earlier and graze it in June or July after weaning the lambs to let the rest of the farm grow some cover for later on. Would be more reliable than growing the turnips later when the flea beetle is about. I hate flea beetle.
Is this a ryegrass thing? I often find plenty of four leaf grasses where all four leaves are good.
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
It looks like there would be a lot less mess if they just moved them a little faster and didn't let it get that bad. Personaly a have found running them through wooded areas during winter can reduce mud to almost zero especially if you keep them moved properly. Of course this depends on your rainfall etc but the leaves and other residue help prevent mud.
Had this conversation with a chap thé other date. Thé conclusions were positive, but they must keep Moving for thé health of thé trèes.
 
Do none of the land owners have lorn term vision. Are they solely in it for the money?
It's made worse because land value is hugely inflated by politics and tax reasons. Then they want a 'return on capital' as the land is worth that much and land agents tell them they can get X% returns on it or whatever. Not the lands fault that it's worth so much :cautious:
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Is this a ryegrass thing? I often find plenty of four leaf grasses where all four leaves are good.
I often see ryegrass tillers with 4 or more leaves, maybe on a 5-leaf tiller it will be beginning to drop the bottom leaf. Cocksfoot/orchardgrass I often see with 7 good leaves, which is why I'd plant it ahead of a ryegrass.
 

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
It's made worse because land value is hugely inflated by politics and tax reasons. Then they want a 'return on capital' as the land is worth that much and land agents tell them they can get X% returns on it or whatever. Not the lands fault that it's worth so much :cautious:
I remember reading that in mid 20th c. a cow and an acre of land were worth about the same. That’s how young people got into farming for themselves: worked for someone else, got paid partly in cows, then bought or traded for land. A very balanced system. Now you have to compete with ‘long term investment ‘ and ‘planning permission’. Bonkers.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
It's made worse because land value is hugely inflated by politics and tax reasons. Then they want a 'return on capital' as the land is worth that much and land agents tell them they can get X% returns on it or whatever. Not the lands fault that it's worth so much :cautious:
It's real value isn't monetary, that's the real issue with farming and land ownership - we're the go-betweens, the manmade world on one side and the natural world on the other, slowly diverging.

Not sure if you know what a soutpiel is but it will make you laugh, quite apt
 

Greg101

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Loading....
It's real value isn't monetary, that's the real issue with farming and land ownership - we're the go-betweens, the manmade world on one side and the natural world on the other, slowly diverging.

Not sure if you know what a soutpiel is but it will make you laugh, quite apt
Combining the natural world with the manmade is really about the only way it seems a person can make it in agriculture. an example would be a farmer who only feeds his cattle bought grain vs a farmer who only feeds his cattle grass off of leased land.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I remember reading that in mid 20th c. a cow and an acre of land were worth about the same. That’s how young people got into farming for themselves: worked for someone else, got paid partly in cows, then bought or traded for land. A very balanced system. Now you have to compete with ‘long term investment ‘ and ‘planning permission’. Bonkers.
That's why 50/50 sharemilking was so popular here for career progression into dairy.
Then dairy took off, and land had huge capital gains - not so much in the last decade or two, but in the 90s it jumped - which tipped the balance as you say.

It meant the demise of the 50/50 guy and benefitted the corporate farms - but because those big capital gains have slowed off, it'll be interesting to see if they take the money and run?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Combining the natural world with the manmade is really about the only way it seems a person can make it in agriculture. an example would be a farmer who only feeds his cattle bought grain vs a farmer who only feeds his cattle grass off of leased land.
I like the idea of getting people to pay just to experience it- create something different and use the uniqueness to bring in a few people, actually take advantage of the disconnect as opposed to complain about the disconnect.
 

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