"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
View attachment 916370
It’s bloody wet out. Had to shift this lot this evening so they didn’t trash the field too badly. Ground seems to be holding up well though. Possibly a combination of more ground cover supporting them better
Persisting down here
Just said to Clare they are going to have to come in, or most of them
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
If you kept little dexters they would be allright outside:whistle:
We will keep the heifers out but here it soon goes from being ok for anything to not wanting much on it at all here.
Missing a few fields as frightened to use them as there are so many acorns this year, so many oaks here we could fence them off but there wouldn't be much field left, don't think I have seen so many acorns they are one up top tuther
 
I can think of quite a few reasons why,, in a local context sending stock to a saleyard is what you do when you can't arrange a private sale?
It just makes trading more expensive, unless you have "more" than you know what to do with
If you go into something like dexters, that aren't looked on favourably in marts, you'd want to have them sold well in advance or at least got a hefty deposit. If you have that deposit, then you have options like taking the loss in the mart. If not it's a bit like gambling :unsure: Like I said earlier on, the production method is only one paradigm change farmers need tobe making, the sales and marketing is just as important.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
They do use much more than we do here in many cases. Groundwater in Canterbury has very high nitrate levels now which have been linked to their world topping rate of colorectal cancer. Legal restrictions are on their way I suspect.
Hence my answer "no" to the above questions from @glasshouse, caps only affect farms that are applying more than the 190kgN/ha that they plucked out of the air.
Nobody can "tell me" to apply less than zero or indeed reduce what I apply 😉 but where it will get a bit messy is:
. where a farmer is growing crops, eg brassicas or beet for outwintering, no cap there yet
. where a farmer is applying 150kg/ha now, it will be a lot like doing 50 in a 60 zone, they may increase up to the cap based on "expert advice" that someone else is doing it
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
If you go into something like dexters, that aren't looked on favourably in marts, you'd want to have them sold well in advance or at least got a hefty deposit. If you have that deposit, then you have options like taking the loss in the mart. If not it's a bit like gambling :unsure: Like I said earlier on, the production method is only one paradigm change farmers need tobe making, the sales and marketing is just as important.
Of course it is!
In fact production is seldom the weakest leg on the stool.... it just looks like it because of a lack of marketing effort in many cases.
Doesn't matter how much you produce if "I'm just a price-taker" isn't ever questioned, a whole heap of feck all is exactly that.
 

GC74

Member
Hence my answer "no" to the above questions from @glasshouse, caps only affect farms that are applying more than the 190kgN/ha that they plucked out of the air.
Nobody can "tell me" to apply less than zero or indeed reduce what I apply 😉 but where it will get a bit messy is:
. where a farmer is growing crops, eg brassicas or beet for outwintering, no cap there yet
. where a farmer is applying 150kg/ha now, it will be a lot like doing 50 in a 60 zone, they may increase up to the cap based on "expert advice" that someone else is doing it
Kiwi Pete you shouldn't forget to mention that the 190kgN/ha is a national cap and regional councils can enforce something much lower or do as some councils are and have leaching limits. Either way we have to comply with strictest rules whether its our local regional rule or the national one. Totally agree it's a bit messy
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Kiwi Pete you shouldn't forget to mention that the 190kgN/ha is a national cap and regional councils can enforce something much lower or do as some councils are and have leaching limits. Either way we have to comply with strictest rules whether its our local regional rule or the national one. Totally agree it's a bit messy
Isn't it a shambles?
Nobody really seems to know what caused the change from "output based" to input/output based, nor where The Level came from.

Putting it into context, though, 190kg/ha/year is about what a decent amount of legume will supply.. and maybe 10% of what is already cycling in biological forms in a healthy ecosystem (everything living contains N, even the air in the pore spaces is 78% N) so it's clearly little more than a stunt.

As you rightly say it's the regional councils that have the say, the main difference being that they aren't campaigning hard like the ministers are 😉

I also question what these bright minds intend to do with all the broom/gorse monocultures that their "fence off all waterways" and foresting policies create, it surely isn't hard science that these species will be greatly adding to the water N issue
 

GC74

Member
Isn't it a shambles?
Nobody really seems to know what caused the change from "output based" to input/output based, nor where The Level came from.

Putting it into context, though, 190kg/ha/year is about what a decent amount of legume will supply.. and maybe 10% of what is already cycling in biological forms in a healthy ecosystem (everything living contains N, even the air in the pore spaces is 78% N) so it's clearly little more than a stunt.

As you rightly say it's the regional councils that have the say, the main difference being that they aren't campaigning hard like the ministers are 😉

I also question what these bright minds intend to do with all the broom/gorse monocultures that their "fence off all waterways" and foresting policies create, it surely isn't hard science that these species will be greatly adding to the water N issue
Yip it is a
Isn't it a shambles?
Nobody really seems to know what caused the change from "output based" to input/output based, nor where The Level came from.

Putting it into context, though, 190kg/ha/year is about what a decent amount of legume will supply.. and maybe 10% of what is already cycling in biological forms in a healthy ecosystem (everything living contains N, even the air in the pore spaces is 78% N) so it's clearly little more than a stunt.

As you rightly say it's the regional councils that have the say, the main difference being that they aren't campaigning hard like the ministers are 😉

I also question what these bright minds intend to do with all the broom/gorse monocultures that their "fence off all waterways" and foresting policies create, it surely isn't hard science that these species will be greatly adding to the water N issue
yip it is a shambles alright!
Totally agree with what you've said. The thing that annoys me the most is they have effectively grandparented our land use and inputs. Also after reading some of the mfe reports I don't believe the rules will have the desired outcomes even if they ban N fert altogether so I'm guessing they will go after stocking rates next!!

Waikato university did some work around reparian strips which I read about 5 years ago and haven't been able find it again. But from what I remember we are going about them the wrong way!
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yip it is a

yip it is a shambles alright!
Totally agree with what you've said. The thing that annoys me the most is they have effectively grandparented our land use and inputs. Also after reading some of the mfe reports I don't believe the rules will have the desired outcomes even if they ban N fert altogether so I'm guessing they will go after stocking rates next!!

Waikato university did some work around reparian strips which I read about 5 years ago and haven't been able find it again. But from what I remember we are going about them the wrong way!
Inputs and management controls seldom actually work, looking over the forum's various threads most schemes and regs really don't put any emphasis on outcomes, and really just dish out a recipe that might do something 🤷‍♂️

"you cannot solve a problem using the same thinking that created the problem" was I think an Albert Einstein quote?
Not many Einsteins in Wellington, it would seem.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I've actually had quite a busy day - write that one down, doesn't happen much :bag:
Cattle did some "impact"
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and then went for a hoon around the neighbour's little front paddock, .2ha or ½ an acre
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to help keep that under control... then came home, full as ticks, a couple of hours later
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Drifted the sheep on
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And then put the topping machines where the sheep were
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I even managed to get a boundary fence shot since they don't mean anything @Farmer Roy
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and had a general cruise around seeing how our grass is growing back. I don't want to go faster than 30-35 days
 

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