"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[GC74]

Inputs and management controls seldom actually work, looking over the forum's various threads most schemes and regs really don't put any emphasis on outcomes, and really just dish out a recipe that might do something

"you cannot solve a problem using the same thinking that created the problem" was I think an Albert Einstein quote?
Not many Einsteins in Wellington, it would seem.

I like that, "not many Einstein's in Wellington" lots of muppets it appears! They are playing with our livelihoods like its some sort of game that they can make up as they go along.

That reparian strip info goes along the lines of this. It needs to be actively growing plants with max ground cover (eg grass that is grazed or removed) For P it only needs to be .5m wide on flat ground and .8m for up to 10 deg
Sadly N was a different story altogether a 30m strip no effect at all!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

At least The Muppets were entertaining

Quite interesting, trial work. Dad ran some fert trials back in the early 80's, when I was a barelegged boy. Just more for our own interest's sake as well as to prove his big brother needed to wind it in..

Continuous urea application actually created less compaction than continuous 0-9-0 (superphosphate), just shallower in the profile.

Urea, it got tight in the 0-5cm range but the 0.9.0 was fine to 5cm and then like a brick from 5-15cm.
After playing with a proper penetrometer, I'd guess it in the 800-900psi range, roots stop at 300psi or so.

The best thing for relieving compaction was.... drumroll please... 20ml of Roundup per acre!

So it led me away from that type of thing and back to the "biological" system and how we can aid that... because "needing to use" riparian strips purely to contain runoff misses the important word - runoff!
Why do we have runoff, a twofold issue of too many soluble fertiliser sources and soils that are too compact to be effective

 

[onesiedale]

At least The Muppets were entertaining

Quite interesting, trial work. Dad ran some fert trials back in the early 80's, when I was a barelegged boy. Just more for our own interest's sake as well as to prove his big brother needed to wind it in..

Continuous urea application actually created less compaction than continuous 0-9-0 (superphosphate), just shallower in the profile.

Urea, it got tight in the 0-5cm range but the 0.9.0 was fine to 5cm and then like a brick from 5-15cm.

The best thing for relieving compaction was.... drumroll please... 20ml of Roundup per acre!

So it led me away from that type of thing and back to the "biological" system and how we can aid that... because "needing to use" riparian strips purely to contain runoff misses the important word - runoff!
Why do we have runoff, a twofold issue of too many soluble fertiliser sources and soils that are too compact to be effective

Thanks Einstein.
But it's logical really - BioLogical

 

[Treg]

Hi folks. Been working my way through from the start of the thread and hit a bit of conversation about broadcast/overseeing by just scattering in front or behind stock.

Would be interested in this to maybe bring in some chocory/plantain/Red clover.

Can anyone impart some wisdom and experience on how it was done and if it actually worked?

Cheers

I have spread it by hand out of a bucket each time I shift the electric fence for strip grazing, then leave for 50 -60 days .
To be honest it was the best I've achieved with over seeding.

 

[Fenwick]

I have spread it by hand out of a bucket each time I shift the electric fence for strip grazing, then leave for 50 -60 days .
To be honest it was the best I've achieved with over seeding.

I have spread it by hand out of a bucket each time I shift the electric fence for strip grazing, then leave for 50 -60 days .
To be honest it was the best I've achieved with over seeding.

chicorée, plantain and red Clover or other stuff as well?

 

[awkward]

It's in a video I've watched before, but I would have to trawl through days of info to find it and I'm not doing that, but regarding size larger heavier animals are harder on the ground which leads to erosion. In the environment being discussed at the time, larger cattle also made less money on a per acre/hectare basis. But the "conventional wisdom" was to breed bigger, cos bigger was better, just cos.

Most likely either a Kit Pharo or Allen Williams video.

Could it have been Greg Judy

 

[JohnGalway]

Could it have been Greg Judy

No it wasn't Judy. There was some congress committee made up of range scientists, ranchers and pen pushers.

 

[Treg]

chicorée, plantain and red Clover or other stuff as well?

Red clover , Italian ryegrass mix.
Spread it on what the cows are about to eat & let them trample it in .
Chicory & plantain are very easy to establish but haven't tried them with overseeding yet ....planning to next year.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Yip it is a

yip it is a shambles alright!
Totally agree with what you've said. The thing that annoys me the most is they have effectively grandparented our land use and inputs. Also after reading some of the mfe reports I don't believe the rules will have the desired outcomes even if they ban N fert altogether so I'm guessing they will go after stocking rates next!!

Waikato university did some work around reparian strips which I read about 5 years ago and haven't been able find it again. But from what I remember we are going about them the wrong way!

Changing nitrate levels in groundwater is a VERY long term project. Our high groundwater nitrate levels in England all began with the ploughing out of grassland in WW2 under the "dig for victory" campaign to feed the population. It's well established that ploughing out permanent pasture releases huge quantities of N for decades afterwards as the soil biology collapses. Capturing it again effectively takes just as long.

 

[Treg]

chicorée, plantain and red Clover or other stuff as well?

There was a video posted on here of a local farmer that spread a handful of seeds every time he went to get the cows for milking, kept a tub of seed in the field .
Ben Mead he's called think it was @Poorbuthappy that posted it? Also he's on carbon cowboy videos.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I have spread it by hand out of a bucket each time I shift the electric fence for strip grazing, then leave for 50 -60 days .
To be honest it was the best I've achieved with over seeding.

But, but, but....

. That doesn't grow GDP (involving paying contractors to spread it, fancy drill manufactures to sell you kit, oil companies to sell you fuel etc)
. It doesn't stroke the ego of folk who live to drive big shiny machines
. It involves actually walking across a field

It'll never catch on....

 

[Samcowman]

Red clover , Italian ryegrass mix.
Spread it on what the cows are about to eat & let them trample it in .
Chicory & plantain are very easy to establish but haven't tried them with overseeding yet ....planning to next year.

I tried overseeding chicory a few years ago. Only really came in fairly bare patches and around gateways which are naturally thinner and more compacted hence suiting the chicory. So if you do it make sure it’s fairly open and keep it grazed extra tight by the stock. Have put a herbal ley in his year with chicory in so hopefully make a better job of it.

 

[Treg]

But, but, but....

. That doesn't grow GDP (involving paying contractors to spread it, fancy drill manufactures to sell you kit, oil companies to sell you fuel etc)
. It doesn't stroke the ego of folk who live to drive big shiny machines
. It involves actually walking across a field

It'll never catch on....

Of course it helped GDP....I had to buy a bucket, it was one those modern ones which come with a handle

 

[Treg]

I tried overseeding chicory a few years ago. Only really came in fairly bare patches and around gateways which are naturally thinner and more compacted hence suiting the chicory. So if you do it make sure it’s fairly open and keep it grazed extra tight by the stock. Have put a herbal ley in his year with chicory in so hopefully make a better job of it.

I do think overseeding is more to do with timing than anything else, have read a book recently that said the best grassland the author had seen was on farms that spread seed little but often and do it when nature would do it , in the autumn winds.
Maximum of 4kgs a acre he was recommending.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I've done a bit of overseeding using various, at various times of the year.

Probably the best results have been spinning seed out in the middle of winter while the soil is like soft putty on top, and doing nothing else differently OR where we broadcast seed one year and then put in a bit of a covercrop/deferred it for winter and then grazed it all off with yearlings.

So much clover even though it really wants a sabbatical, it might only get half-a-.

 

[Henarar]

Of course it helped GDP....I had to buy a bucket, it was one those modern ones which come with a handle

I prefer a fiddle, you can't beat a good fiddle

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I prefer a fiddle, you can't beat a good fiddle

I'm surprised some enterprising soul isn't making them again be a hard man who wears out a new fiddle

 

[Henarar]

I'm surprised some enterprising soul isn't making them again be a hard man who wears out a new fiddle

the spinner is getting rusted out on our one,
surprising how quick you can get over the ground with one

 

[Treg]

I prefer a fiddle, you can't beat a good fiddle

I did see there's a modern version, little electric one holds couple of kg of seed at a time...bucket was cheaper though.

 

[Henarar]

I did see there's a modern version, little electric one holds couple of kg of seed at a time...bucket was cheaper though.

You see the old ones at sales sometimes, just a handy thing to have about hung up in the shed it don't eat nart