"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Karliboy]

My old fencer had a fast/slow option and that was a Rutland but it sadly died.
looking back at last summer I actually only had 1 break out and that was on the last move of the last fence of the year so I’m not complaining. The reason for that was I was strip grazing big wide strips so every stake you move you end up with a big gap until you get to the next one and move it up as we all know one off the cocky old cows seen the gap and went for it and fudged 30meter of new steel wire.
Setting cells up is so much easier than moving a long fence twice a day with the risk of a break out. Now I’ve got so much more equipment I’ll never go back to strips.
i only use steel wire just above knee height. (they could stride over it if they wanted.
I never had much joy with braid even though it’s easily joinable in event of a break unlike steel where you get a big knot that snags

 

[Kiwi Pete]

My old fencer had a fast/slow option and that was a Rutland but it sadly died.
looking back at last summer I actually only had 1 break out and that was on the last move of the last fence of the year so I’m not complaining. The reason for that was I was strip grazing big wide strips so every stake you move you end up with a big gap until you get to the next one and move it up as we all know one off the cocky old cows seen the gap and went for it and fudged 30meter of new steel wire.
Setting cells up is so much easier than moving a long fence twice a day with the risk of a break out. Now I’ve got so much more equipment I’ll never go back to strips.
i only use steel wire just above knee height. (they could stride over it if they wanted.
I never had much joy with braid even though it’s easily joinable in event of a break unlike steel where you get a big knot that snags

100%

I do triangles with the sheep mob as it means I can make paddocks with less fences - 3 if in the open or a "wedge" using a boundary fence, but I couldn't go back to strip grazing either, what a ball-ache that was much prefer a grid layout and if sh!t happens, they go into another identical cell before all their mates do

hence forgetting to turn the power on for 3 weeks and then needing to hook up Bootzilla to clear the wires of grass

 

[som farmer]

I just wouldn't turn it off, in that case.

If you get a whack then they will also get a whack

you have learnt, yes? They will learn too.

At the moment you're giving them mixed messages: If nobody's around, the fence hurts.
If someone is around, then it probably doesn't hurt -or it may, but probably not

good idea, but not to keen on moving mains fence, twice a day, in wet kale, 3 to 5 feet tall, with the bloody thing on !
we had trouble, years ago, with cows pushing the stakes over, cured that by using electrified standards, and our old trick, of dangling chain, used to use cow chains, easy now with carbine clips.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

good idea, but not to keen on moving mains fence, twice a day, in wet kale, 3 to 5 feet tall, with the bloody thing on !
we had trouble, years ago, with cows pushing the stakes over, cured that by using electrified standards, and our old trick, of dangling chain, used to use cow chains, easy now with carbine clips.

Can you make a track through the kale crop?

I just used a quad or my canam towing an old "junkyard" trailer with no axle, or in some cases just push a straw bale along with the wee tractor to make tracks for fencelines. Sharpened bar on the front like a snowplough also works.
Often a big part of the issue is the stock don't see the fence and are through it, get a shock on the rump and are rewarded for the trouble.
They just don't see the "obvious" bit of floss in front of them because of the big jungle of kale leaves and excitement does the rest

pros and cons, if all I had to do to get unlimited food was get one electric shock a day then.... let's just say I wouldn't stay behind a fence.
I think it's fairly much crucial that they get unlimited food staying in, as well, in order to retrain them.

I honestly don't know how the "3 day breaks" guys sleep at night, I guess they're the ones with 15kV fences. Mine is never over 5.1kV

 

[som farmer]

Can you make a track through the kale crop?

I just used a quad or my canam towing an old "junkyard" trailer with no axle, or in some cases just push a straw bale along with the wee tractor to make tracks for fencelines. Sharpened bar on the front like a snowplough also works.
Often a big part of the issue is the stock don't see the fence and are through it, get a shock on the rump and are rewarded for the trouble.
They just don't see the "obvious" bit of floss in front of them because of the big jungle of kale leaves and excitement does the rest

pros and cons, if all I had to do to get unlimited food was get one electric shock a day then.... let's just say I wouldn't stay behind a fence.
I think it's fairly much crucial that they get unlimited food staying in, as well, in order to retrain them.

I honestly don't know how the "3 day breaks" guys sleep at night, I guess they're the ones with 15kV fences. Mine is never over 5.1kV

ours reads 9 in the kale ones, we drive down through it, and use the wheel marks, for 2 moves. My farm truck is a susuki jimny, in places, kale is taller than it ! Having been so dry this summer, amazed how the kale grew so well, but cut the rye, drilled next day, and caught about the only shower we had, up and away ! (thankfully)

 

[Henarar]

I just wouldn't turn it off, in that case.

If you get a whack then they will also get a whack

you have learnt, yes? They will learn too.

At the moment you're giving them mixed messages: If nobody's around, the fence hurts.
If someone is around, then it probably doesn't hurt -or it may, but probably not

Back in the days of the old fencers that had a loud tick we had a cow that knew if it wasn't ticking she could walk through, she would be out as soon as the fence was turned off. Dad would move it switched on with sparks coming off the nails in his boots

 

[Kiwi Pete]

We used to feed in blocks - 100 metre long by 8 deep, and seldom had a bustout. 100 cows, 2 bales of silage, 8m² of kale and the fences to roll/put up were only 100m long . Roughly 5kgDM of silage and 7 of kale by the time you factor utilisation, maintenance rations really.

Funny how at that time I never thought I'd see a better way to feed cattle over the winter and in hindsight (for that climate/soil type) it was possibly one of the worst, hey ho!

Could you maybe make their allocation more square than strip, see if it helps?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Back in the days of the old fencers that had a loud tick we had a cow that knew if it wasn't ticking she could walk through, she would be out as soon as the fence was turned off. Dad would move it switched on with sparks coming off the nails in his boots

It's only a shock if you're shocked by getting a shock. If you aren't surprised by the wire having a pulse then it isn't a shock at all, grab the bugger properly!

Starting to sound like my old man, uncle was terrified of the electric fence so I used to grab hold of it and grab his shoulder

 

[Poorbuthappy]

You could, or even add another rod at the far end. If it's wet though, you'll struggle to have a poor enough earth for a battery unit. They just don't have the oomph through the unit to suffer, my bigger battery one is 12 joule and it's not really much of a smack compared to the mains ones.

I have put the 36 joule one on just to cope with the grass loading, ie the bottom wire flashes at night and the grass goes brown around it, normally I use a 25 joule one but I have a spare one, thought I'd try it out.
It's definitely more of a challenge to tie a bowline hot with the M36 going.

I think this is some of where the difference lies. You think of your battery fencer being "only" 12 j. That's a big mains fencer with that power for most people here. A 3-5j fencer is pretty good going in battery terms here.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

"That bit" has healed up OK @Henarar

.. a couple of the other bits, not so much... or not yet, at least.

the main difference was: 'that bit' was hurt on the first round of grazing, these other bits were damaged on the second round when the cover was less.

Lesson: only do one round of winter grazing!

This year we'll just stick with the 130-day-round ie use most of the other side of the farm, 67 acres @½ acre per day. This side will get a rest and be hopefully shipshape by springtime, so we have grass to graze for a couple of months.

 

[som farmer]

It's only a shock if you're shocked by getting a shock. If you aren't surprised by the wire having a pulse then it isn't a shock at all, grab the bugger properly!

Starting to sound like my old man, uncle was terrified of the electric fence so I used to grab hold of it and grab his shoulder

local keeper, and a few others, are completely terrified of it, one lad helping us, walked round for 10 mins, going shite shite shite, and claimed his elbow, which caught the shock, wasn't right for days ! One of his 'being good' periods, he was off the wacky baccy ! Now there's an idea, grow it, feed it to the cattle, to increase the shock power !
we grew some hemp, in a game cover, that started some gossip !

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I think this is some of where the difference lies. You think of your battery fencer being "only" 12 j. That's a big mains fencer with that power for most people here. A 3-5j fencer is pretty good going in battery terms here.

I have a 0.8J one as well, I think I would be more of a deterrent if I stood out there with one of those little clicky beetle toys they used to give kids at birthday parties

the main thing is that an electric fence is just a bit of string, "the barrier" is what lies between their ears.
They either have a mentality that they're part of a mob that grows their own food with the help of a human, or the mentality that "every man for themselves" ie "I am above the law"

it is all down to psychology, not having 15 wires and 19 thousand volts "keeping them in", it won't .
It is about having a herd or flock with its "herd instinct" reignited, it is in there, you just have to reinforce it, blow on the ember if you like

People are the same; it's against the law to do lots of things and some people still do those things.
Speed down the roads, drink drive, rape, murder, steal stuff. It's a game of risk to some, but to others they simply wouldn't even consider doing those things, because they know what is right and wrong. It doesn't need to be told.to them daily because it's their program

 

[Kiwi Pete]

local keeper, and a few others, are completely terrified of it, one lad helping us, walked round for 10 mins, going shite shite shite, and claimed his elbow, which caught the shock, wasn't right for days ! One of his 'being good' periods, he was off the wacky baccy ! Now there's an idea, grow it, feed it to the cattle, to increase the shock power !
we grew some hemp, in a game cover, that started some gossip !

They won't be hurdling much if you share a few bongs with them

 

[Henarar]

It's only a shock if you're shocked by getting a shock. If you aren't surprised by the wire having a pulse then it isn't a shock at all, grab the bugger properly!

Starting to sound like my old man, uncle was terrified of the electric fence so I used to grab hold of it and grab his shoulder

We wouldnt dare go near dad when he was moving the fence the bugger would grab hold of you.
Mum was petting sisters horse over the fence so I caught hold of the fence and mums other hand, I got a bit of a shock mum got a fare shock and the horse was bloody gone

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

If I wrap one wire round my Earth rod and run that along the bottom will that be enough to be an Earth line

In desperation, I have run an earth in the very bottom strand so running through the grass, and connected it to the earth terminal on the fencer, that way you have a good earth right along the fence line where you need it. Also connecting to stock netting which is always pretty close to the ground as @hendrebc suggests will improve your earth.

I would also put a good electric fence round the outside of the prison paddock where they will get a guaranteed shock and no reward.

 

[Gulli]

I use the dog every morning to move. But they decide to get out mid day....

Move them again at mid-day

 

[som farmer]

once told to use ht barbed wire, and electrify it, barbs make better contact, in a 'training' paddock, never done it, been tempted to do it, but to the 240v mains supply !! Whether you are legally allowed to, I don't know, thought it wasn't, same as running a elec fence, under, and following, main supply. Elec fencing, makes life so much easier, but, when you do get hassle, it's a bugger.

 

[Bury the Trash]

once told to use ht barbed wire, and electrify it, barbs make better contact, in a 'training' paddock, never done it, been tempted to do it

We do not want people keeping livestock with that sort of mentality? Surely.
What about if they get hanged up in it.
Barb wire is crap anyway.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

We do not want people keeping livestock with that sort of mentality? Surely.
What about if they get hanged up in it.
Barb wire is crap anyway.

Pretty sure it's illegal anyway, so is electrifying stock netting.

 

[som farmer]

We do not want people keeping livestock with that sort of mentality? Surely.
What about if they get hanged up in it.
Barb wire is crap anyway.

we only buy high tensile now, ordinary barbed, gets slack to easily. We have 1 fence, put up with decent posts, and ht stockfence, and barb, summer 96, still tight, post's ok. Then the posts went shite, everything after that, has been patched/reposted, more than once, it's the stakes that don't last. Always thought, elec b wire barbaric, but have wished a few people caught up in it !