bit faster to establish , better for later in autumn sowing ive found if thats relivant .
big leaved wc would compliment it.
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
This will be spring sown.
will still be quicker than Ir. also newer varieties last longer i believe ......... and its slightly more trendy
no, I just like it its good stuff as long as you keep on top of it else it goes to sticks. clover would still be fine tho of course.
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
The early spring grazing from the IRG appeals, along with RC. Who couldn't do with more grass in March?
I think I'm going to try some next year. Some issues with legumes ruining soil with the high nitrogen burning up soil carbon somehow but I won't know how bad it is until I try.
It ticks a lot of boxes otherwise.
Rc wont be seen in early spring ( unless it's been left over from previous autumn. ) there wont be much if at all early clover grazing there never is.
Infact Italian and westerwolds are a bit 'all mouth and trousers' as well no bottom, not much of a sheep grazing grass to much upwards and not so much downwards.
Along with that They wont hold up stock as good in wet conditions either.
Infact Italian and westerwolds are a bit 'all mouth and trousers' as well no bottom, not much of a sheep grazing grass to much upwards and not so much downwards.
Along with that They wont hold up stock as good in wet conditions either.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Hybrid RG always looks the business early here, but you put the stock in and it kinda melts away.
Spring round it gets its trousers on
and next round it is trying hard to become firewood. That was the main reason behind trying the newer cocksfoot instead; I've been very impressed by how it's done and is nice and dense, good nurse crop while the timothy gets established and very cheap seed/ha by comparison to the "big name" rg varieties.
I'd just about say "if I ever reseed grass here again it will be a cocksfoot-based mix" on the back of what it's doing, not sure if I would if I would use it if spring sowing though. Bigger seeds definitely have more punch.
I think what I used was SeedForce "Greenly" cocksfoot but would have to check that, I do know that's what's in my 'repair kit' mix along with a bit of italian because it says so on the bag.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It won't be too bad if you're supplying plenty of Carbon via your management, the compaction issues are more prevalent where lucerne monoculture is about the only option, and the crop is either baled up or grazed to the deck all the time, sprayed in the middle incase "weeds" show up.
(Why else would they be showing up)
Note my above comment about "trying to become firewood", plenty of C in the bum-end of the grass here now, so diversity is (as always) a key to good outcomes with high legume content pastures.
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
I'm wondering what to put in after it, which is potentially a couple of years down the line. Could be a herbal mix. We'll see how the cattle grazing goes this coming year.
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
No, the RC will die out over the winter and after May I could do with the IRG transforming into something else really. Have read elsewhere on here about more IRG being scratched in. Could do that with something else?
No but there would be some Italian ryegrass or something with it you could graze that a bit in the times where there isn't any clover couldn't you?
I have thought about maybe putting some of white clover, ryegrass, Timothy mix in with it in low rates and then it would be reseeded with something more permanent ready when the red clover fades away. Don't want to half arse both jobs though
exmoor dave
Member
- Location
- exmoor, uk
Hybrid RG always looks the business early here, but you put the stock in and it kinda melts away.
Spring round it gets its trousers on
That was the main reason behind trying the newer cocksfoot instead; I've been very impressed by how it's done and is nice and dense, good nurse crop while the timothy gets established and very cheap seed/ha by comparison to the "big name" rg varieties.
I'd just about say "if I ever reseed grass here again it will be a cocksfoot-based mix" on the back of what it's doing, not sure if I would if I would use it if spring sowing though. Bigger seeds definitely have more punch.
I think what I used was SeedForce "Greenly" cocksfoot but would have to check that, I do know that's what's in my 'repair kit' mix along with a bit of italian because it says so on the bag.
I priced some cocksfoot up this past summer for chucking on some gorse cleared slopes..... stuth the seed was going to be shockingly expensive!
Circa £5.50 -6.50/kg depending on variety
I've bought in the past at about £3-4/kg.... that was expensive enough
When we were in Akaroa, I read some info somewhere, that the banks peninsula was once a major centre for growing seed cocksfoot.
Does NZ still produce alot of cocksfoot seed?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Yes, heaps of seed grown on the Canterbury plains, it's like it's made for seed production up there.
Good drying winds so it is ready for early harvest, I think the majority of the world's carrot seed still comes from there.
Plenty of gravel in the soil so once it heats up, it stays that way, regardless of weather.
- Location
- somerset
is that seed expensive, if it does the job, when others don't ? So many people cost out the price of grass seed, and pick the lowest quote, you expect a ley, to be down for x yrs, and to be highly productive, but so many pick the cheapest. The difference between a 'good' and a 'bad' ley, is often about £10/15 acre, peanuts when you think of how much a ley can produce.
It is interesting to follow the train of ideas, on here, re grass production, most of us, have tried/used modern ryegrass leys, with clover, and, presumably not that impressed, seeing all the 'chat' on here. But, the systems, varieties, herbs etc, that we talk about, even the methods we use to so them, are all pointing, in some farmers opinion, to a retrospective time. Cocksfoot, timothy, fesques, with clover herbs etc, is basically permanent pasture, which was all ploughed up, because it didn't produce enough. Thinking back to my college days, early 70's, i can recall going to one farm, where most of the grass was pp, and producing the same as leys, perhaps, if i had listened harder, i might have saved myself several £100,000 spent since, on reseeding. I think it's the way we use grass, more than the type, is where we may have lost our way. Two things i have seriously benefited from this thread, non ploughing, and leaving higher residuals, as have said, we have had 3 very dry summers, with very little grass growth, but the end of this summer, was different, when rain came, grass exploded, why ? Down to improved soil structure, by not ploughing, more dry grass mixes ? Not really sure, but we are continuing along the road, herbs are now going into the mix, it will be interesting to see, how they interact.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
If you can manage what grows for free under your style of management, then you get an infinite return on investment from it.
It's hard to beat an infinite return by adding cost!
In this respect, managing to facilitate plant succession is an extremely important decision when it comes to pasture management; if we choose to prevent it for the purposes of increased production then we need to factor the cost of reseeding into the "extra" and decide if it is really worth doing at all.
It's hard to beat an infinite return by adding cost!
In this respect, managing to facilitate plant succession is an extremely important decision when it comes to pasture management; if we choose to prevent it for the purposes of increased production then we need to factor the cost of reseeding into the "extra" and decide if it is really worth doing at all.
It seems to be "I want to farm like that now what inputs do I need to buy"
Why not "look whats growing on its own, how can I make that work"
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Exactly.
Do we really need Pedigree Pasture Plants?
Maybe they bring on the Potash/Phosphate/Problems and that brings about the P!ss Poor Performance at the end of the year.
- Location
- somerset
we are in an intensive ley system, which isn't working, on our dry farm, normal growing season great, dry one, shite, so are moving down a different road, but it all takes time, farming is a long term enterprise, that functions in a short term world, we simply cannot afford a rapid change over, to what looks a better system, but, as yet, unproven here.
I use utube a lot, and was looking at vetches on there, something we are trying here, with hybrid rye, organic farm, big field of straight vetch, to be combined, seed for animal feed, ground up 30% pro, haulm baled for feed. Looked fantastic, no weeds to be seen, the vetch simply stifles them out, he 'lifted' some up, so we could see the very dense mat, covering the ground. We grew oats and vetches, 60/70's, and a dense mat like that, mean't it was absolute shite to cut and harvest (silage), certainly hope our rye/vetch mix, doesn't do the same ! It might be a case of, i told you so !
I use utube a lot, and was looking at vetches on there, something we are trying here, with hybrid rye, organic farm, big field of straight vetch, to be combined, seed for animal feed, ground up 30% pro, haulm baled for feed. Looked fantastic, no weeds to be seen, the vetch simply stifles them out, he 'lifted' some up, so we could see the very dense mat, covering the ground. We grew oats and vetches, 60/70's, and a dense mat like that, mean't it was absolute shite to cut and harvest (silage), certainly hope our rye/vetch mix, doesn't do the same ! It might be a case of, i told you so !
- Location
- somerset
reckon the 5th sheep, from the right, looks poor, the rest look great, just shows what can be done, with little imput.