"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Henarar]

reckon the 5th sheep, from the right, looks poor, the rest look great, just shows what can be done, with little imput.

she is just milking her lamb well

 

[Henarar]

we are in an intensive ley system, which isn't working, on our dry farm, normal growing season great, dry one, shite, so are moving down a different road, but it all takes time, farming is a long term enterprise, that functions in a short term world, we simply cannot afford a rapid change over, to what looks a better system, but, as yet, unproven here.

the problem when you have been on the treadmill is getting off

A farmer reseeds with ryegrass "its been proved to grow more than old pasture" fair enough look over the hedge it looks like it does but when it comes to bale its not quite the same story, "but its better quality" fair enough but come "the winter the cows are sh1tting their guts out" need to feed some hay or straw with it.
This is beef cows maybe different with dairy I don't know I just say what I see

 

[som farmer]

we grew a high sugar grazing ley, dairy hated it, milk drop, and the sh1!s, these were hols, just to 'good', they trimmed the hedges nicely, and cleared a bale of straw, before getting stuck into the grass. Our xbreds did better, but not happy on it. All these 'better' grasses/feeds are fine, but the important bit, is how long it takes, to go through an animal, to ensure everything is utilised, if it doesn't, the 'good' stuff is partially wasted. We have left longer residuals on the grazing this year, theory being quicker regrowth, seems to have worked, and the stem gives some roughage. The cows have still been loose, with a dry time, we have fed hay, all summer, shite was firmer, and butterfat stayed up.
We are told, multi cut silage, is the 'way' forward, much improved feed value, then also told, put some straw into the mix, for roughage ! As farming evolves, and TMR etc, is only 50 yrs old, perhaps we shall see changes, back to previous systems. With a TMR ration, yeasts, anti-acid etc, are promoted, if the cow was fed a 'natural' feed, would she need them, maize, a wonderful feed for cows, but they are not designed to eat it. Time, as always, will show how good/bad a system is. Should we be importing straights, from across the globe, support a huge industry, telling us, we need them, or is there another way ? The only certain thing for the future, is we all need food to survive, hand in hand with that, all guvs, want cheap food, the two don't sit well together. The future will be interesting, whether we end up feeding an older type forage system to stock, or go further down the 'high' imput route. The change, i expect will lean towards 'better' utilisation of both, a hybrid !

 

[Kiwi Pete]

the problem when you have been on the treadmill is getting off

A farmer reseeds with ryegrass "its been proved to grow more than old pasture" fair enough look over the hedge it looks like it does but when it comes to bale its not quite the same story, "but its better quality" fair enough but come "the winter the cows are sh1tting their guts out" need to feed some hay or straw with it.
This is beef cows maybe different with dairy I don't know I just say what I see

My old pasture has heaps of ryegrass, just it has heaps of other stuff as well. Endophytes have a marked effect on stock performance and so when they, ergot and other things are causing stock to "go off" species, all you need is plenty of diversity so they have free choice to avoid eating what they don't want to eat.
This approach makes more sense to me than getting on a treadmill of cutting off seedheads and overgrazing pastures to "keep quality" in them, as someone else said "it's still wrong if everyone is doing it and still right if nobody is doing it"

often the hay that people are feeding to promote rumen health is the exact same stuff that could have been in your pasture if you didn't cut hay, just like what I was saying to @ajd132 about applying cans of stuff to promote soil fungi and then applying fungicide - but in different context.

It doesn't give you time with your family, and it doesn't put a year on your life.
It just sends more of your money to town and diminishes the ability of the biome to find its own balance

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

we grew a high sugar grazing ley, dairy hated it, milk drop, and the sh1!s, these were hols, just to 'good', they trimmed the hedges nicely, and cleared a bale of straw, before getting stuck into the grass. Our xbreds did better, but not happy on it. All these 'better' grasses/feeds are fine, but the important bit, is how long it takes, to go through an animal, to ensure everything is utilised, if it doesn't, the 'good' stuff is partially wasted. We have left longer residuals on the grazing this year, theory being quicker regrowth, seems to have worked, and the stem gives some roughage. The cows have still been loose, with a dry time, we have fed hay, all summer, shite was firmer, and butterfat stayed up.
We are told, multi cut silage, is the 'way' forward, much improved feed value, then also told, put some straw into the mix, for roughage ! As farming evolves, and TMR etc, is only 50 yrs old, perhaps we shall see changes, back to previous systems. With a TMR ration, yeasts, anti-acid etc, are promoted, if the cow was fed a 'natural' feed, would she need them, maize, a wonderful feed for cows, but they are not designed to eat it. Time, as always, will show how good/bad a system is. Should we be importing straights, from across the globe, support a huge industry, telling us, we need them, or is there another way ? The only certain thing for the future, is we all need food to survive, hand in hand with that, all guvs, want cheap food, the two don't sit well together. The future will be interesting, whether we end up feeding an older type forage system to stock, or go further down the 'high' imput route. The change, i expect will lean towards 'better' utilisation of both, a hybrid !

One particular idea in Voisin's "Grass Productivity" has really stuck with me: All of the "new" wonder grasses are tested and measured in a laboratory. Fine if we want to feed a laboratory but we don't, we feed livestock. It means nothing if a new grass cultivar shows astonishing response to fertiliser if the stock won't eat it or it gives them raging sh1!s!

 

[som farmer]

One particular idea in Voisin's "Grass Productivity" has really stuck with me: All of the "new" wonder grasses are tested and measured in a laboratory. Fine if we want to feed a laboratory but we don't, we feed livestock. It means nothing if a new grass cultivar shows astonishing response to fertiliser if the stock won't eat it or it gives them raging sh1!s!

agree 100%, and been saying so, on here. It's funny, the dairy farmers, or some of them, are on about xbreeding, and b fr cows, here, we are talking old grasses, herbs etc, doesn't it sound like the old systems are coming back around ?

 

[Bury the Trash]

No, the RC will die out over the winter and after May I could do with the IRG transforming into something else really. Have read elsewhere on here about more IRG being scratched in. Could do that with something else?

or use the ir or wester's as a nurse crop , dont put on too heavy a seedrate of it and add in some thiongelse prg oe timothy better if its moisture holding ground. that s sort of why i suggest wc as it will be there for much longer so plus some added garss means you wouldnt have to do anything else for a longer term iyswim.

No but there would be some Italian ryegrass or something with it you could graze that a bit in the times where there isn't any clover couldn't you?
I have thought about maybe putting some of white clover, ryegrass, Timothy mix in with it in low rates and then it would be reseeded with something more permanent ready when the red clover fades away. Don't want to half arse both jobs though

yeah i do that a bit westerwolds with timothy on the right ground plus wc small leaved or a mix , then when the wester goes away the others take over . its not so much a big short term forage crop as a nurse crop to save sowing and farting around twice iyswim.
im pretty busy atm but when i get chance i take a few pics , nothing exciting just westerwolds with Timothy and WC that i sowed this spring.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

agree 100%, and been saying so, on here. It's funny, the dairy farmers, or some of them, are on about xbreeding, and b fr cows, here, we are talking old grasses, herbs etc, doesn't it sound like the old systems are coming back around ?

It probably never really "left" but the availability heuristic of all this "progressiveness" is probably huge in the UK given your ag policies over the past 80 years or so.
There are an awful lot of farmers out there just doing what always worked and avoiding getting on that treadmill of putting overproduction before health.
Much of it depends on overheads, my mortgage is far too big to play at things. In 20 years I'll be wondering what to blow the profit on,so the taxman doesn't get ahold of it, but it certainly won't be on buying seed and machines

 

[som farmer]

NZ looks so much like our county, som, always wished i'd gone there, but, left school, milking cows the next day, at least i got to college, and a year on another farm, as part of the course. That was begrudged. Made sure my son went elsewhere working, when we went back milking, his decision, not mine, i milked so many days while he kept up with some of his 'other' work. Really wished i hadn't now, gave up for injury reasons, then the milking flared it up again, and now, 2 sticks, blue badge and the farmers forum !

 

[onesiedale]

NZ never had any appeal at all for me as a youngster starting out. However, I travelled out there in 2017 and came back thinking it was a good job it didn't apppeal all those years ago, - if I had gone out there then, somehow I don't think I'd have come back..
Funny how life turns out.

 

[Johnny Whiteheads]

Bale unrolling. If the weather dried up even a little I could do these rushes some damage.

 

[JohnGalway]

Bale unrolling. If the weather dried up even a little I could do these rushes some damage.
View attachment 922923

Are you figuring the disturbance will control the rushes or am I way off?

 

[Johnny Whiteheads]

Are you figuring the disturbance will control the rushes or am I way off?

Its my first time unrolling hay. Cattle have flattened/trampled rushes and left a thin residue of hay. At the very least it gives the grass a fair fight when growing season begins a everything is starting from even starting point?

 

[JohnGalway]

Its my first time unrolling hay. Cattle have flattened/trampled rushes and left a thin residue of hay. At the very least it gives the grass a fair fight when growing season begins a everything is starting from even starting point?

I'll be very interested in the results. I presume you plan to unroll more bales in that area?

 

[Johnny Whiteheads]

I'll be very interested in the results. I presume you plan to unroll more bales in that area?

Yes I will but it will mean I will have no back fence as I move cattle uphill for a while. I am allocating 10 incalf heifers and 4 cows with calves (all jersey xbred) a half acre a day stockpile & a bale every 2 days

 

[JohnGalway]

I have a weakness, perhaps a condition, maybe even a syndrome

It started with reading online, then browsing YouTube videos, then buying specialist books, and now courses.............

.............and I hope I'm never cured

Signed up to Nicole Masters Soil Health Foundations, taking a quick run through the course first to see what's in it, so far so

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Finally got my paddock finished.
2.1ha, went in 6.30PM on the 18th and came out at 8.30PM on the 25th. Could have stayed longer but no real need for that!

"There's more grass where they're going"

 

[Crofter64]

I just finished this book. It is written as a narrative. One couple that has taken the Ranching for Profit school and their friends ( another couple) who have only attended a workshop on the subject. Through their coversations, explanations and interactions you are taught the basic framework of most of the Ranching for Profit concepts(we are reminded a couple of times that it is not the Ranching for breaking even school which is a bit if a giveaway). I doubt if I will ever take one of the week long schools but I feel that I have quite a bit to work with having read this book and watched You Tube videos and read their free emails. I have always had trouble understanding some of the concepts, but this book clarified them very well. At the back there are lots of resources to help people get a handle on their own enterprises( below is a list)

 

[Crofter64]

Can't remember if its been mentioned before, but anyone watched this?

Watch The Sacred Cow Movie For FREE

The Sacred Cow: A "No-Holds" Barred Documentary Which Finally Lays Bare...The REAL Truth BEHIND Meat, Your Health And The Environment

access.sacredcow.info

I watched it last night. Nothing I didn’t know before but for someone new to it I thought the presentation was excellent: restrained, easy to follow, respectful and hopeful. Not preachy or patronising- I hope it reaches who I think os the its target audience- the young who are panicking about the state of the world and are turning Greta- ish or Vegan or both.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I watched it last night. Nothing I didn’t know before but for someone new to it I thought the presentation was excellent: restrained, easy to follow, respectful and hopeful. Not preachy or patronising- I hope it reaches who I think os the its target audience- the young who are panicking about the state of the world and are turning Greta- ish or Vegan or both.

Totally agree there's nothing new in there for those already "on the case", but as you say, well presented, and interesting to hear the ex vegan's pov