"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[bendigeidfran]

You only need to look at the response to covid19 to see the evidence of this.

"keep everyone apart and wait for a vaccine" instead of "go about your regular business but be aware of the at-risk members of society"

if I can develop some degree of immunity from a vaccine then why can't I develop it from coming in contact with it?
If keeping all these herds and flocks separate is the answer, then why is scab and CODD and all the rest of these "animal health problems" still problems?

What about if we put them all together and the ones who couldn't hack it didn't breed more weakness into the flock?

Chinese had a diffrent way than most western society's to deal with corvid, they assumed every body had it and had to prove you did'nt before you could do anything.

Would'nt want scab in my ewes, ive seen sheep with scab on the open hill in elan valley, not a nice way to go. Id treat them as soon as they had it.
Lice and codd are a bit diffrent, ewes at work had codd, although painful they do get over it.
Got a bit of lice at home, does'nt seem to bother them that much.

 

[exmoor dave]

Spring pasture is great! View attachment 927256
Got another 50 cattle this afternoon - luckily the truckie rang me when he was ½ an hour away as we didn't know we were getting another load it's all good though.

140 mixed cattle, 300 sheep + lambs on 5800m²

That's a great picture pete!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

That's a great picture pete!

Here's a better one... not hard to look over the stock.

I gave them a double-sized break last night as I didn't want the new cattle under too much pressure. This one is about .3ha so (rough maths here) 140x400= 56 tonnes of moo
300x75= 22.5 tonnes of bleat
÷.3
= 260 ish tonnes/ha

Lets see what that does

 

[Fenwick]

Here's a better one... not hard to look over the stock.View attachment 927420
I gave them a double-sized break last night as I didn't want the new cattle under too much pressure. This one is about .3ha so (rough maths here) 140x400= 56 tonnes of moo
300x75= 22.5 tonnes of bleat
÷.3
= 260 ish tonnes/ha

Lets see what that does

Great stuff.

Would you mind me using this post in a French Facebook discussion group?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Great stuff.

Would you mind me using this post in a French Facebook discussion group?

Not at all - I'd be quite interested to hear the feedback if any

I do think there is a different "herd impact" when you combine grazers and browsers compared to running the same density with cattle alone.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

2 hours later:

they really only stood up because I pulled up and they recognised the ute.
They were in here by about 7.15am and Sarah moved them on about 4.30pm.

 

[Fenwick]

Not at all - I'd be quite interested to hear the feedback if any

I do think there is a different "herd impact" when you combine grazers and browsers compared to running the same density with cattle alone.

Ok thanks. I'll let you know. It will raise some eyebrows thats for sure. I love this pic as it's pretty much where i sée us in a couple of years.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Ok thanks. I'll let you know. It will raise some eyebrows thats for sure. I love this pic as it's pretty much where i sée us in a couple of years.

Good things take time! I'd readily admit that I wouldn't have had a show of "doing this" 2 or 3 years ago as my confidence just wasn't there

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Good things take time! I'd readily admit that I wouldn't have had a show of "doing this" 2 or 3 years ago as my confidence just wasn't there

Just a confidence issue or do you think changes / improvements you've made have helped make it work?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Good question - probably both!

None of it was as easy to perform until I clicked onto shifting them under the fence.
Over kinda worked... but under is awesome
Otherwise it means folding fences back on themselves and having pileups of electric sheeps occasionally

I have bought another whole fence worth of reels and standards, that stopped me chasing my tail a bit and allowed me to do better paddocks instead of strip grazing and losing all the density, same with getting more portable troughs.

I'm loathed to spend more on "this" type of electric fencing because I'd rather buy more kiwitech stuff instead.
It's a bit like doing up an old car vs getting a newer car and spending money on that.

But definitely confidence and a lot of learning as well, all the while the objective has slowly shifted to be more inline with our holistic goals.
That kinda means we abandoned the "farming" goal and replaced it with grazing, which works a lot better for us.
Confidence that long grass doesn't kill sheep, or hurt cattle, because you don't really see much tall-grass grazing you 'assume' that it isn't right.

For a start it was "well, we've got a tunnelhouse and a silage setup so we'll just do that" and it worked.... but this works better in so many ways.
Not only the cost but also the drying-out over summer after taking silage off, the inefficiencies with all that tractor time etc etc

 

[farmgineer]

How long have you been doing this @Kiwi Pete ? Trying to understand how far behind we are and how soon to expect this type of result. Keep up the good work

 

[Kiwi Pete]

How long have you been doing this @Kiwi Pete ? Trying to understand how far behind we are and how soon to expect this type of result. Keep up the good work

We've been here for 4½ years.

Messed around making excuses and mistakes for 3½ so I could learn what makes everything tick - you could easily fast-track it if you're prepared to do whatever it takes.

Many are keen on the result.. but not so keen on whatever it takes - I found (this is kinda a personal excuse) that it is a damned sight easier to juggle numbers than juggle area. And cheaper.

A lot of it is faith that what you "waste" will come back with interest added.. the mechanical system is linear, you know?
You take 3 tonnes of feed out of the system and put 3 tonnes of feed back into the stock later.

But once you start pushing things, get away from "rotational grazing" mindset and start thinking of feeding the soil the spare grass; then it tends to have a more compounding effect, 3 tonnes becomes 4 and 4 becomes 6 in time.

Hence I had to figure it out because I didn't necessarily have a decent mentor for a start to show me what happens between using occasional high density grazing and having the mob as tight as possible and maintain it - it's awfully easy to let it off:
"they need to get back to water"
"I haven't got enough gear to keep the backfence up so I'll let them back onto it and"

So you can avoid all that wasteage by spending a few bob on extra infrastructure and get what you want to happen, happening.

IMO you really want to get up to that 200,000kg/mark or you'll get older and sick of waiting, it's tiring if you aren't seeing effects but putting the yards in.
I don't like recipes but I only see pain under that figure. 80,000 may as well be 80 kg/ha.
As above I really struggled to even get a sheep-only mob up to 80,000, which neatly undoes the work the cattle at 200,000+ are doing.
The time factor then means it could be as rewarding to use a mulcher and a rotational grazing system?

I guess the visible difference is that down here at the moment most farms will have maybe 10 or 20% of their farm not being grazed today. Everything is parked all over it.
We have 99.1% of our farm not being grazed today, and about ⅓ of that .9% under grazing isn't even being eaten.

Big long post there but the essence is, the message is: don't feck about like I did unless you want to spin it out (I have 2 kids and a wife who want to take their time, but now that it's getting going they are filling their sails).

Follow the steps, if you want to change your land and what grows, mob them up tight. Start ASAP, keep it going.
If you want to use holistic management, spend your dough and do a course on HM and it will bounce you forward.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Can we have some before, during and after close up pics please Pete to show what covers you're going into and what residuals you're leaving?

 

[Crofter64]

Pete,is the field they’re in the same one they were in on Oct 19( mob stocking thread)? and if so is this their first time back since then? what is the approx.10 foot wide fenced off alley in the middle right of the photo posted in post 17,426? Finally, after you lower the wires off the pogo stick what do you do with the slack?

 

[Fenwick]

We've been here for 4½ years.

Messed around making excuses and mistakes for 3½ so I could learn what makes everything tick - you could easily fast-track it if you're prepared to do whatever it takes.

Many are keen on the result.. but not so keen on whatever it takes - I found (this is kinda a personal excuse) that it is a damned sight easier to juggle numbers than juggle area. And cheaper.

A lot of it is faith that what you "waste" will come back with interest added.. the mechanical system is linear, you know?
You take 3 tonnes of feed out of the system and put 3 tonnes of feed back into the stock later.

But once you start pushing things, get away from "rotational grazing" mindset and start thinking of feeding the soil the spare grass; then it tends to have a more compounding effect, 3 tonnes becomes 4 and 4 becomes 6 in time.

Hence I had to figure it out because I didn't necessarily have a decent mentor for a start to show me what happens between using occasional high density grazing and having the mob as tight as possible and maintain it - it's awfully easy to let it off:
"they need to get back to water"
"I haven't got enough gear to keep the backfence up so I'll let them back onto it and"

So you can avoid all that wasteage by spending a few bob on extra infrastructure and get what you want to happen, happening.

IMO you really want to get up to that 200,000kg/mark or you'll get older and sick of waiting, it's tiring if you aren't seeing effects but putting the yards in.
I don't like recipes but I only see pain under that figure. 80,000 may as well be 80 kg/ha.
As above I really struggled to even get a sheep-only mob up to 80,000, which neatly undoes the work the cattle at 200,000+ are doing.
The time factor then means it could be as rewarding to use a mulcher and a rotational grazing system?

I guess the visible difference is that down here at the moment most farms will have maybe 10 or 20% of their farm not being grazed today. Everything is parked all over it.
We have 99.1% of our farm not being grazed today, and about ⅓ of that .9% under grazing isn't even being eaten.View attachment 927504
Big long post there but the essence is, the message is: don't feck about like I did unless you want to spin it out (I have 2 kids and a wife who want to take their time, but now that it's getting going they are filling their sails).

Follow the steps, if you want to change your land and what grows, mob them up tight. Start ASAP, keep it going.
If you want to use holistic management, spend your dough and do a course on HM and it will bounce you forward.

Beautiful post that .

We felt a big difference when we doubled from 1 day moves to 2. Which coincidentally put us a 204,507kg/Ha.
We have been doing 3 moves a day this autumn and found it even better. But the fencing and water needs to be in good shape to remain efficient.

Probably going to try 4 moves next year with a couple of batt latches. We'll see.

Have also messed about a little at 400,000 kgs/ ha and I was really happy with the results. But it was a bit to hungry on man power.

 

[farmgineer]

Can we have some before, during and after close up pics please Pete to show what covers you're going into and what residuals you're leaving?

Yes this would be good please, I'm sat here with a calculator trying to work out how many moves I need to do to achieve that stock density and also provide enough grub for them to not chew it right down.
Is it just me that can't wait for spring? I think it's quite handy having people in different hemispheres trying this and talking to one another, it means we can try things in 2 growing seasons per year!

 

[onesiedale]

Pete,is the field they’re in the same one they were in on Oct 19( mob stocking thread)? and if so is this their first time back since then? what is the approx.10 foot wide fenced off alley in the middle right of the photo posted in post 17,426? Finally, after you lower the wires off the pogo stick what do you do with the slack?

inspector Crofter!

 

[Crofter64]

inspector Crofter!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Can we have some before, during and after close up pics please Pete to show what covers you're going into and what residuals you're leaving?

Will do - weekend coming up I'll also say "why" it is what it is.

Pete,is the field they’re in the same one they were in on Oct 19( mob stocking thread)? and if so is this their first time back since then? what is the approx.10 foot wide fenced off alley in the middle right of the photo posted in post 17,426? Finally, after you lower the wires off the pogo stick what do you do with the slack?

Good spotting, yes and yes! The top part of the paddock (1.8ha) was grazed again in November but we left that drier area for an extra month to thicken up a little and go a bit stemmier. That little alley is where the boundary fence is stuffed, so I fenced a strip off and planted flax in it, you can see the fertility transfer away from that side as weather direction (SW) means stock tend to drift from right to left (you're looking due south in that photo) and a bit of shelter there is good to have.

 

[Tyedyetom]

Lost of questions to answer, I’ve got one more. Is there double the benefit from moving from 200,000 to 400,000kg? Is it a straight line or more to it than that? Thanks, good to see thinks going well.