"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Henarar]

Exactly ---- my standards will be different from yours but at least with a brand like organic you can see the legal definition whereas this doesn't seem to have any hard rules?
I have emailed the contact on the website to ask for clarification

you don't need a definition so long as you know what it means

 

[som farmer]

a statistic, every 1,000,000 litres of milk, takes a ton of mineral from the soil, or so they say.

 

[Fake it ‘til you make it]

a statistic, every 1,000,000 litres of milk, takes a ton of mineral from the soil, or so they say.

So a 10,000 litre cow is mining roughly 10kg of minerals per year. Interesting.

 

[Fake it ‘til you make it]

So a 10,000 litre cow is mining roughly 10kg of minerals per year. Interesting.

That’s part of the case for spreading FYM I suppose, the brought in straw would offset much of that I would guess?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

In my case the bloody hard way

That's the easiest way in the end, you could "get taught it" and never learn a bloody thing

I like to "choose hard" because you learn so much more about stuff

 

[Fake it ‘til you make it]

That's the easiest way in the end, you could "get taught it" and never learn a bloody thing

I like to "choose hard" because you learn so much more about stuff

Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn. Benjamin Franklin

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I wouldnt go to mental in my experience fields that have been treated the same and are on the same soil type all come back very similar for micronutrient results

Soil tests in general are a complete crock of shite, leading to land being "in production" that never should have been; and also perpetuating the myth that agriculture is a sustainable business model.

But it is interesting if someone else is paying for it

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn. Benjamin Franklin

Absolutely . I can see a brave new world of soil testing happening in the UK if ELMS is implemented, more soil will be on its way to the lab in plastic bags than a bear could sh!t in a decade.

Glad it aint my circus

 

[som farmer]

So a 10,000 litre cow is mining roughly 10kg of minerals per year. Interesting.

following on from that, if stock get some minerals from the soil, via the leaf, one could think the top 8ins has been drained of available minerals, now with changing ideas of plants, deeper roots etc, how long will it take to abstract all available minerals from the next 6 ins, chickory is advertised as deep rooting = more minerals, something to mull over.

Absolutely . I can see a brave new world of soil testing happening in the UK if ELMS is implemented, more soil will be on its way to the lab in plastic bags than a bear could sh!t in a decade.

Glad it aint my circus

under the present NVZ regulations, you have to soil test every field, at least once, every 4 yrs, we got pulled up over a 2 acre p/p field, we keep calves on, in the village ! But the AE man, is a serious jobsworth !

 

[jack6480]

quick one as ive finally got the go ahead to book an agronomist in for minerla soil tests - anything worth specifically asking for.?.. so far - Soil OM, PH , then P, K, Mg
being on limestone i wonder if Ca is also worth looking at? anything worth NOT getting?

I just had some great tests done a lot more detailed than the simple lancrop ones if you’d like me to share

 

[GC74]

Soil tests in general are a complete crock of shite, leading to land being "in production" that never should have been; and also perpetuating the myth that agriculture is a sustainable business model.

But it is interesting if someone else is paying for it

But they sell a lot of fertilizer tho......

 

[GC74]

following on from that, if stock get some minerals from the soil, via the leaf, one could think the top 8ins has been drained of available minerals, now with changing ideas of plants, deeper roots etc, how long will it take to abstract all available minerals from the next 6 ins, chickory is advertised as deep rooting = more minerals, something to mull over.



under the present NVZ regulations, you have to soil test every field, at least once, every 4 yrs, we got pulled up over a 2 acre p/p field, we keep calves on, in the village ! But the AE man, is a serious jobsworth !

Have you read anything from reams or skow or Andersen?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

But they sell a lot of fertilizer tho......

They sure do. It's actually quite astounding what folk will pour onto their land but actually get very little bang for their bucks due to how it's managed.

We'll put fertiliser on one day but I'm damned if it's the first thing to throw money at

 

[Kiwi Pete]

While you're here @GC74

here's our schematic for 280(286) paddocks roughly 1000m² each, (the 6 smaller ones will form the lane to access the town reservoir)
18.300km of single wire (recycled) and 3km of 25mm greenline, 400m of 40mm (the red line)

paddocks are roughly 20x50 so they can be cut in half again by rolling out a reel over the top of the HT if we want to, otherwise I would have gone to 750m² cells for a start (120 cells per 8ha system)

I knew your folks were scratching their heads at what I was trying to describe so a picture may help!

 

[GC74]

don't worry Pete I've been here.........just haven't seen anything that I felt needed a silly comment! That looks very good and tbh not quite what I was picturing from what you were saying while we were there. Still can't help thinking virtual fencing would be fantastic for holistic grazing....specially on evenings like this with snow on the mountains again and bucketing down........... pretty sure nawa predicted a long hot dry summer Hey was wondering while filling in your days spreading expensive fertiliser are you putting on any humates

 

[som farmer]

Have you read anything from reams or skow or Andersen?

no, but will google them

 

[GC74]

no, but will google them

Oh bugger it, I'll have a go at answering it as I've interpreted what I've read from those guys. Besides it's pissing down and I'll only get a wet ass if I go out to my ute to find a beer. The first part is the 80 20 rule, that is 20% of the nutrients for the plant comes from the soil and 80% comes from the atmosphere. The second part is the 50:50 rule that is whatever biomass above ground is there's an equal amount underground. So even if you harvest most of the biomass above ground there should be a net gain of nutrients in the soil because 80% of the 50% that's under ground had its nutrients provided by the atmosphere........there's a couple of catches though all nutrients need to be entering the plant in phosphate form apart from N and also you need twice as much available nutrients as you think because you need to feed the soil biology as well. First steps available Ca and soil needs to breathe.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

don't worry Pete I've been here.........just haven't seen anything that I felt needed a silly comment! That looks very good and tbh not quite what I was picturing from what you were saying while we were there. Still can't help thinking virtual fencing would be fantastic for holistic grazing....specially on evenings like this with snow on the mountains again and bucketing down........... pretty sure nawa predicted a long hot dry summer Hey was wondering while filling in your days spreading expensive fertiliser are you putting on any humates

Only a couple of guys are putting humates on, usually (but not always) with the heli on steeper stuff. Most of it is from Bio Soils, down your way.

Yeah we looked at virtual fencing but I just like how this works, so flexible as the mob(s) can be any size you like. Any number of mobs you like and any plant recovery time that you shift for.
Dozens of mineral-water dispensers is the big plus for us, I think you'd still want a similar water system for virtual fencing?

I just think how long it takes to "halter train" a whole heap of young boisterous calves to the collars and also the cost over a 30 year timeframe put me off for now.
Be a great tool for a farmer but just a bit iffy for what we want.

 

[GC74]

Understand your thinking there...... yip I know of bio soils its funny isn't it 4-5 years ago humates were all the go!

 

[som farmer]

Oh bugger it, I'll have a go at answering it as I've interpreted what I've read from those guys. Besides it's pissing down and I'll only get a wet ass if I go out to my ute to find a beer. The first part is the 80 20 rule, that is 20% of the nutrients for the plant comes from the soil and 80% comes from the atmosphere. The second part is the 50:50 rule that is whatever biomass above ground is there's an equal amount underground. So even if you harvest most of the biomass above ground there should be a net gain of nutrients in the soil because 80% of the 50% that's under ground had its nutrients provided by the atmosphere........there's a couple of catches though all nutrients need to be entering the plant in phosphate form apart from N and also you need twice as much available nutrients as you think because you need to feed the soil biology as well. First steps available Ca and soil needs to breathe.

makes more sense than the mineral rep ! We do min bolus our cows at drying off, and add iodine, and dry cows have a dry cow mineral lick, but have stopped using mins in the dairy ration, we are not high yielding, and fertility is excellent, so presumably moving towards drought resistant grasses, basically deeper rooting and herbs, should be 'non-depletive' of mins.