"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

"Trikes swim"

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Our neighbour had the first trike in the district, a Yamaha Bullfrog in the early 80's.

"They reckon they swim really good" he said, and gave it full noise in 4th into the big lake / pond

apparently, they do float, but they prefer the rider not to be adding too much weight as they make entry, poor bugger surfaced wearing mostly duckshite and embarrassment, what a stunt in front of your 8 nearest neighbours.... it did run again after taking the plug out and a few oil changes later it was traded on a new Bullfrog

 

[GC74]

There's an assumption that the wise old farmers knew what they were doing in the olden days, but you've only to read Dirt by David Montgomery, to realise the damage that was done...the Land of Milk and Honey in the Bible was turned to desert by ancient farmers doing it wrong, ditto the North African breadbaskets of Libya and Tunis destroyed by greedy Romans and on it goes. Those guys were taking carbon out of the soil, we need to put it back.

Anyway, I've been enjoying myself this winter blocking ditches, where appropriate, and allowing floodwater across meadows. Boy, does it green the grass up! You've got to pick your spot, but there is something very satisfying about stopping the water from leaving via a ditch, as well as filtering the silt out

Don't think I could bring myself to do that in fact had the drain cleaner in today.....you do raise an important point about allow meadows to flood tho, starting to think it's time to remove some flood banks, look at the benefits, keeps the sediment on the land, slows the flow, and my favourite flood out a few ignoring people that like to live in groups.

 

[GC74]

Our neighbour had the first trike in the district, a Yamaha Bullfrog in the early 80's.

"They reckon they swim really good" he said, and gave it full noise in 4th into the big lake / pond

apparently, they do float, but they prefer the rider not to be adding too much weight as they make entry, poor bugger surfaced wearing mostly duckshite and embarrassment, what a stunt in front of your 8 nearest neighbours.... it did run again after taking the plug out and a few oil changes later it was traded on a new Bullfrog

gold We had hondas here in the early 80s, there was lots of talk about their floating abilities but can't remember if anyone tried them out! I would have a Honda 250 3 wheeler any day

 

[awkward]

I feel a farm walk coming on (once restrictions are lifted).

Maybe a video or two for those of us outside the pail

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Don't think I could bring myself to do that in fact had the drain cleaner in today.....you do raise an important point about allow meadows to flood tho, starting to think it's time to remove some flood banks, look at the benefits, keeps the sediment on the land, slows the flow, and my favourite flood out a few ignoring people that like to live in groups.

I had a mate call up tonight with my grader blade and bale tipper, it's funny how he thinks how I used to think about water.

"you should just run a tile down there and fill it in while you have the chance" sort of thing.

He's got a good farm as far as diversity goes, sand country, "the swamp" which is basically a water-meadow, hills, and heaps of totara and wetlands.
A farm for every season, I can see why he would say that but he can also see why I am not tiling it and trying to grow more grass.

 

[GC74]

Yeah I see that, like I probably won't bother putting in new tiles but happy to maintain what's there if I feel the need but I would think if the water cycle is getting looked after the water shouldn't get that far....

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yeah I see that, like I probably won't bother putting in new tiles but happy to maintain what's there if I feel the need but I would think if the water cycle is getting looked after the water shouldn't get that far....

I have water run onto ours which I want to capture.

I think a few off-contour rips away from these little basins would help shift the neighbour's runoff out across these sunny faces, and then I can maybe add weeping willows, poplar etc along those rips in the odd place near a fence

there will be lots of fences for trees to be near, I just know it needs more depth/layers than the bare grass you see there

 

[GC74]

Yip reckon that would work I prefer the look of polar myself but your choice

 

[som farmer]

Humans brought a problem in the shape of the plough. Even the most rudimentary plough caused compaction, maybe only a couple of inches down, and subsequently erosion. Back in Greek times Plato commented on erosion, it took a long time back then as they didn't have the helpful technology to plough often. So land would have looked very, very different to the first humans than to us now. Or look at the settlers in America, and their astonishment of the fertility of the land, and what the ended up doing to it, wore it out ploughing, growing tobacco etc. So, I reckon a lot of problems were man made, which they did their best at the time to remedy though drainage, but that was addressing a symptom, not the root cause. Pre man, pre disturbance, Nature would have had structure in the soil, which does a lot of great things like slow water down but not turn it to swamp, hold nutrients, aerate soil etc.

during the time we had the archaeologist's here, in their 'diggings', they could show you the different plough pans throughout the century's. The very earliest ones, were the clearest, distinct yellow lines in the subsoil, 4/5 feet down, presumably it wasn't all subsoil then. Then farmers relied on rotation of crops, to try and preserve fertility, and with the norfolk 4 course rotation, had it pretty well sorted. Since ww2, rotation has changed, mono culture has come into the fore, rotation meaning different grain crops etc, and balanced with fert etc. That has achieved cheap food, and knackered soils. Basically man has screwed the soils by relying on fert etc, to keep production up, the time is coming, that the damage done, has been realised, and politicians are floundering around, with half baked ideas, to sort it out,
not a sensible solution, knee jerk never is. The only real solutions are to work with nature, after all, we did for centuries, if nothing else, we will slow down the decline, until a solution is found. That sounds more like a green fanatics dream, rather than sense, but the world population still has to be fed, and all those useful tools, fert, spray, gm and ploughs, still have a role to play, we just need to learn, when we need them, not blanket use.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I have water run onto ours which I want to capture.View attachment 939830
I think a few off-contour rips away from these little basins would help shift the neighbour's runoff out across these sunny faces, and then I can maybe add weeping willows, poplar etc along those rips in the odd place near a fence

there will be lots of fences for trees to be near, I just know it needs more depth/layers than the bare grass you see there

What's his/ her fertiliser regime? Will you risk spreading unwanted pollution out across your ranch?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Since ww2, rotation has changed, mono culture has come into the fore, rotation meaning different grain crops etc, and balanced with fert etc. That has achieved cheap food, and knackered soils. Basically man has screwed the soils by relying on fert etc, to keep production up, the time is coming, that the damage done, has been realised, and politicians are floundering around, with half baked ideas, to sort it out,

But the majority of agricultural researchers are still engaged in studies to push further down the "optimised inputs" route.....

 

[Woolless]

gold We had hondas here in the early 80s, there was lots of talk about their floating abilities but can't remember if anyone tried them out! I would have a Honda 250 3 wheeler any day

My quad is a 2003 350cc 2wd Honda Fourtrak. Does my job

 

[JohnGalway]

during the time we had the archaeologist's here, in their 'diggings', they could show you the different plough pans throughout the century's. The very earliest ones, were the clearest, distinct yellow lines in the subsoil, 4/5 feet down, presumably it wasn't all subsoil then. Then farmers relied on rotation of crops, to try and preserve fertility, and with the norfolk 4 course rotation, had it pretty well sorted. Since ww2, rotation has changed, mono culture has come into the fore, rotation meaning different grain crops etc, and balanced with fert etc. That has achieved cheap food, and knackered soils. Basically man has screwed the soils by relying on fert etc, to keep production up, the time is coming, that the damage done, has been realised, and politicians are floundering around, with half baked ideas, to sort it out,
not a sensible solution, knee jerk never is. The only real solutions are to work with nature, after all, we did for centuries, if nothing else, we will slow down the decline, until a solution is found. That sounds more like a green fanatics dream, rather than sense, but the world population still has to be fed, and all those useful tools, fert, spray, gm and ploughs, still have a role to play, we just need to learn, when we need them, not blanket use.

There's something I need to research, what biology can be introduced into the soil that prey on politicians.

I don't know enough about soil to offer reasoning why those pans are where they are, it sure would be interesting to find out though. Are they on a slope by chance? I wonder would the soil have eroded.

The hardest thing I'm finding is getting away from animal related chemicals, particularly when it comes to sheep. I think this would all be easier with cows. Fert and herbicides are easy for me, just stopped using them. But animal welfare is an entirely different ball game. It's a bit chicken and egg, the biology and diversity would keep most parasites in check but when it's not yet there then out come the chems to try to keep the problems at bay.

 

[Guleesh]

There's something I need to research, what biology can be introduced into the soil that prey on politicians.

I don't know enough about soil to offer reasoning why those pans are where they are, it sure would be interesting to find out though. Are they on a slope by chance? I wonder would the soil have eroded.

The hardest thing I'm finding is getting away from animal related chemicals, particularly when it comes to sheep. I think this would all be easier with cows. Fert and herbicides are easy for me, just stopped using them. But animal welfare is an entirely different ball game. It's a bit chicken and egg, the biology and diversity would keep most parasites in check but when it's not yet there then out come the chems to try to keep the problems at bay.

We're trying to keep certain areas of ground completely free of such chemicals, by planning for any routine treatments as they leave it rather than enter it, we are just using the withdrawal periods on whatever products we're using as a guide as to how long since last treatment.(before we turn them out on this ground) Not sure whether the withdrawal period stated is actually long enough but I'd hope It would actually be longer than necessary to provide a buffer zone for meat entering the food chain.

 

[Blaithin]

If water hangs around and stagnates anaerobic conditions will form in soil which means bad stuff happens there, or if soil is waterlogged part of the year and maybe relatively not waterlogged the rest of the year that's not much good either. Sometimes - man made? - drainage is necessary to prevent or lessen those scenarios.

To hold water in a beneficial way keeping soil aerobic, soil would need protection in the form of living plant cover or litter of some kind to reduce/prevent evaporation. Then the soil should have the right biology in it to build structure, structure will hold water, allowing it to infiltrate and move through the soil profile more slowly. Less of the flood/drought scenario in well structured soil. But, well structured soil won't exist in anaerobic conditions.

Or so I am told

I don’t think it’s that simple. It’s been grossly simplified to promote things like drainage and ability for consistent land use and higher demand species, but with anything Nature, it’s not that simple.

I have my planted aquarium on the go. Dirt at the bottom of water.... can’t get more anaerobic. In fact they recommend not going thicker than an inch as more than that increases risk of anaerobic spots forming. Inch of soil, at least an inch of gravel to cap or less than an inch of sand to cap. Sand will seal it more and create more anaerobic risk. This is the tanks natural filter that replaces mechanical filtration. We know riparian areas function as water filtration systems. We also know they have more than an inch of soil.

So

Then you see tanks with huge soil deposits. In these scenarios invertebrates are big players. Worms, snails, weird little microscopic things.... they burrow and tunnel and aerate. The plants mature and their roots descend more. If you can keep the ecosystem healthy, the organisms that can function there will appear and in turn, support more health. If something in the cycle of the tank gets out of balance it’s called crashing. The cycle crashes and you need to recycle your tank to achieve balance again.

In nature you can still find healthy riparian areas. Places where you can pull up a handful of dirt from the bottom of a pond and it smells like dirt. Then you can find unhealthy riparian areas where you pull up dirt and it smells like rotten eggs. This smell is the telltale sign of an anaerobic environment. So why can some riparian areas smell healthy and be healthy and others aren’t? Probably comes down to micro biome health.

Plants are very adaptable. Species that require water can go dormant for long periods of time, species that work well in dry are capable of surviving in some amounts of water. Some will even have submerged and emerged forms. Here in the prairies we have riparian areas called potholes. In dry periods they can be completely dry, in wet periods they are ponds. They aren’t naturally unhealthy, they aren’t dead spots because of the constant changing. In dry periods the more terrestrial plants will grow, in wet periods you will start to see slough grasses and cattails, that have been dormant, sometimes for years, start to appear.

Last year when annual crops were flooding and performing poorly because of too much rain, the potholes in the fields were dead spots. The one annual plant seeded in them could not perform in those conditions so those conditions defaulted to mud. Cross over a fence into a pasture, a neighbouring pothole would be full of life with perennial grasses converting, dormant species emerging, invertebrates appearing, water fowl, amphibians....

It’s all part of the diversity mantra. You have as much diversity as possible and let Nature do it’s thing, then the area will be healthy. You start to try and manage it and all of a sudden it’s out of whack and no longer healthy and maybe even dead. You can crash the ecosystem and need to give it time to re cycle.

This issue usually arises because healthy and functioning does not always mean fiscally productive or palatable. It can pay off more to fight Nature and try and pull off a money crop or grass that livestock will eat and perform alright on, than to let that area revert to healthy.

 

[Treg]

There's something I need to research, what biology can be introduced into the soil that prey on politicians.

I don't know enough about soil to offer reasoning why those pans are where they are, it sure would be interesting to find out though. Are they on a slope by chance? I wonder would the soil have eroded.

The hardest thing I'm finding is getting away from animal related chemicals, particularly when it comes to sheep. I think this would all be easier with cows. Fert and herbicides are easy for me, just stopped using them. But animal welfare is an entirely different ball game. It's a bit chicken and egg, the biology and diversity would keep most parasites in check but when it's not yet there then out come the chems to try to keep the problems at bay.

Perhaps add more herbs to your grassland , it does take time but once your soil is healthy the stock will be healthy too.
Have you looked at homeopathy? I don't know a lot about sheep but perhaps look at your most common problem and look up a homeopathy remedy for it and try it along side your normal medicines to see if you can reduce usage.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Perhaps add more herbs to your grassland , it does take time but once your soil is healthy the stock will be healthy too.
Have you looked at homeopathy? I don't know a lot about sheep but perhaps look at your most common problem and look up a homeopathy remedy for it and try it along side your normal medicines to see if you can reduce usage.

I now only have sheep on in the winter. Cattle never get any treatments and nor does the grassland.

Edit, sheep really only need the treatment in the summer for worms or fly

 

[Guleesh]

I now only have sheep on in the winter. Cattle never get any treatments and nor does the grassland.

Edit, sheep really only need the treatment in the summer for worms or fly

Are lice ,scab or fluke not problems you have? For us I think we use more product in winter than summer.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Are lice ,scab or fluke not problems you have? For us I think we use more product in winter than summer.

Not as yet. We take stock in from a closed flock and we aren't in a sheepy area