"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

How do you set stock really well? Genuine question. From what one hears and reads, set stocking inevitably leads to overgrazing of the “nice” plants as they recover and undergrazing of the plants that the stock are less keen on.

I think you can do most things better if they're planned, and things like set stocking can easily fit into a grazing plan.

The key is to see it from different angles and recognise that grazing is a stress.

Overgrazing and undergrazing equals more stress and less recovery time, compared to correct grazing and appropriate recovery time.

There should be sufficient "give" or resilience for pastures to accomodate periods of set stocking, then?

Always it seems to come back to time... and we all see time in a different way as it means different things to different people.

 

[beefandsleep]

How do you set stock really well? Genuine question. From what one hears and reads, set stocking inevitably leads to overgrazing of the “nice” plants as they recover and undergrazing of the plants that the stock are less keen on.

Not to claim I’m doing the job 100% but I stock heavily early on the season, it usually works out about 1500kg/ha. As growth declines going into July I take the biggest cattle out to feed. This makes sure quality is maintained and balances out grass growth. If I’ve got it wrong and the grass gets ahead I will close a field off and leave it to bale, adding it back to the platform after cutting. If it’s a poor grass year silage ground can be added to the grazing block after 1st cut. Set stocking isn’t just a case of tipping cattle out and forgetting about them for the summer, it still needs managing to get the best out of it.

 

[onesiedale]

I was thinking a video of a farm walk, assassinating the bad practices of the host farmer, could be interesting reactions , but in reality a video explaining intent and outcomes in a visual way for the likes of myself

Like that idea.
We could set up a thread/group here that would be a useful tool and reference. @awkward care to host the first walk?

 

[Bowland Bob]

That was a bit of the real Pete

I should go back to being Kiwi Pete...

But I should add that I grew up racing dirtbikes and cars... and if you aren't full throttle or full brakes then you are "losing time"

in this I'm not saying that these guys aren't doing a fantastic job and a wonderful face of regenerative grazing but it's also not my ideal "way" to help farmers.
Why give away the answers when you can teach them to question?
That's my question for Jim and Greg and Jaime.
These guys are almost verging on "a recipe for beef production" and it's like the plate meters. Why.

Why not ask the questions, like
"is this the absolute best thing I can do with the landscape today" or "why are the cows actually in this place at this time" and be honest .

It is more unique and revealing if it comes from your own "senses" than a man from YouTube or TFF.

I agree with this, webinars, you tube videos, tff, yes I learn a lot, but all the while ask questions of myself as to what would benefit my farm. As I'm only starting this journey I have no recipe and probably never will, all I know is that the regenerative / holistic approach just seems to tick all the boxes, albeit what works for Greg Judy, or Pete's ranch on the South Island in NZ may well not work on my hill farm in Lancashire. I question and as I start my journey I can also observe. For starters I'm keen to see how the bracken that's had a good trampling by the cows responds this spring

 

[Bowland Bob]

Water infra structure beginning to take shape

 

[bendigeidfran]

Thanks guys. I could have kept them here for a while longer but I was sick of one of the stock agents not answering my agent, being a bit of a di-ck head about it as is his reputation.... and I need a break

All the talk about agents makes you sound like a Hollywood actor or an overpaid sportsman

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I agree with this, webinars, you tube videos, tff, yes I learn a lot, but all the while ask questions of myself as to what would benefit my farm. As I'm only starting this journey I have no recipe and probably never will, all I know is that the regenerative / holistic approach just seems to tick all the boxes, albeit what works for Greg Judy, or Pete's ranch on the South Island in NZ may well not work on my hill farm in Lancashire. I question and as I start my journey I can also observe. For starters I'm keen to see how the bracken that's had a good trampling by the cows responds this spring

I can almost guarantee what I want to do will not work as well for you as it works for us.
Because what I want to do is not what you want to do!

The principles are pretty universal, for sure.... but I often need to stress the fact that I am not trying to be a farmer.

I don't need "more grass faster" to improve my landscape function and it would only minutely affect the P:E ratio of our business if we do so; which is why @sheepdogtrail et al have quite a different view to me about grass species.

(I seek to increase days between grazings, not decrease, made more difficult by having grass that keeps coming back up )

If I was deriving my income from lamb/calf sales, then I would have much different priorities.

If I could get 800 cattle to do one grazing every year then it would suit better than 80 cattle doing 10 laps or 40 cattle doing 20 grazings a year, because that simply takes longer to increase landscape function (if it even happens).

 

[Kiwi Pete]

All the talk about agents makes you sound like a Hollywood actor or an overpaid sportsman

We knew that dealing with Rural Livestock was probably going to be a bad idea, and this proved correct

 

[Guleesh]

How do you set stock really well? Genuine question. From what one hears and reads, set stocking inevitably leads to overgrazing of the “nice” plants as they recover and undergrazing of the plants that the stock are less keen on.

Mostly set stocked ground around these parts. There is a fine line between not enough animals and too many, either way doesn't really work.

In areas like here the growing season is short but we have near round the clock daylight at summer solstice, provided the ground is holding similar stocking rates in summer as it did in winter then the majority of plants do get a reasonable chance to recover.

Soil health is still decreasing, but if done 'well', it's decreasing at a rate slow enough for it to be almost unnoticeable in the working life of one generation farming it. It seems to take a hundred years at least before the system completely collapses.

The same damage can definitely be achieved in merely a few years of badly managed rotations.

The difference between having your ground degenerating or regenerating can be slight, and sometimes very small changes can tip the balance the right way and get things moving in the right direction. What KP says, likening it to racing a dirtbike, strikes a chord with me, If we want to make any change we're not around long enough to waste time. Once you get it heading the right direction and the cycle 'pulsing' you want to push it as hard as you can.

That's my take on it

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Water infra structure beginning to take shape

Good stuff

 

[onesiedale]

Water infra structure beginning to take shape

Simple DIY project?
What head do you think it will pump to?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I was thinking a video of a farm walk, assassinating the bad practices of the host farmer, could be interesting reactions , but in reality a video explaining intent and outcomes in a visual way for the likes of myself

The point here is that our ideas and practices should be evolving ?
If we decide that what we do today is "good enough" and just keep doing it..... will we stop looking for better ways to approach our issues ?

I used to go to discussion groups when I was dairying, more as an excuse to get off the farm for the day and see new things created by different minds

 

[Bowland Bob]

Simple DIY project?
What head do you think it will pump to?

Yes it is, I've run it 350m and 7m head, works fine. Manual says it will pump to 70m head.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Must be a powerful little sucker

 

[Bowland Bob]

Must be a powerful little sucker

So it seems! £60 ish of Amazon. I've got another to sort water for the higher ground. A few bars too much from that location in the photo!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Relay pumping?
That'd be some cheap setup for getting water uphill, I wonder if they would drive a small ram pump

 

[Bowland Bob]

Relay pumping?
That'd be some cheap setup for getting water uphill, I wonder if they would drive a small ram pump

I was gearing up for a ram pump, but in the end thought it would take more setting up, may still do yet if this set up isn't reliable . I thought about relay pumping, but there's a moorland pond up there I can make use of. I thought about using the pond for all the water but it would be at least 700 pounds extra in pipe alone.

 

[onesiedale]

Yes it is, I've run it 350m and 7m head, works fine. Manual says it will pump to 70m head.

70m head!
Can you please send us a link.

 

[Bowland Bob]

70m head!
Can you please send us a link.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ECO-WORTHY-Solar-Energy-Submersible-Water/dp/. There's a few if you search around I think mine was 57 pounds in the end. I bought a separate 100w solar panel, which would be good for 70m lift. There are pump and panel bundles aswell.

 

[Karliboy]

Like that idea.
We could set up a thread/group here that would be a useful tool and reference. @awkward care to host the first walk?

We all need one of these