"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

Quite.

But Brexit debates aren't painful at all - they are fascinating, because so many different issues flow therefrom.

(The one that's bugging me, at the moment, is why so many English farmers declare very strong support for a UK politician whom they know is a serial liar, adulterer, etc - they are willing to suspend both belief and moral judgement, so long as he speaks to their identity. That's quite a sobering conclusion in the 21st Century - have we learnt nothing?)

And I'm disappointed in the 'Shoestring' thread - it's been on my mind for a while, toying with the idea, and it's (again) worrying how many farmers equate 'shoestring' with 'old machinery'.

Arthur Street demonstrated that running kit into the ground was merely a game of 'last man standing' - in the end, everyone loses.

But lose:lose situations are not, however, the automatic turn-off you'd think they'd be - again, Brexit demonstrates that it often provokes a 'bring it on' mentality that I would like to explore, one day.

That's the part that I, speaking purely as an interested "foreign" spectator, struggle to comprehend: that it is assumed that you can simply pluck out a "thing" - whether it is rural payments, or weather, or politics out and simply assume the rest of the spider-web won't vibrate... everything is interdependent, intertwined, and reliant on the other parts.

By comparison, most local farming operations are hugely self-sufficient and self-motivated to become more so, not less so in the future:
- Less bought in feed, less bought in medicines and chemicals, less machinery and trimmings to add layers of cost to operations that have already survived the acetylene torch of political detachment.

It's really only our dairy industry that trades animal feed, the rest simply trade their animals, the most valuable carbon compound of the lot is thus the most efficient and effective thing to transport about the countryside.

Literally, polar opposites, although topographically very similar indeed. Visitors exclaim how similar our local vistas are to the Scottish border or Welsh hill country - with notably sparse population.

 

[Henarar]

A lot of old machinery is worth more than it was a few years ago and costs little to keep going
Its better to not need it at all
Where is the farmer with none and no use of contractor's?
Anyone on here got no machinery and dont use contractor's machines ?
None at all
We have got loads of the stuff kicking about
Should have a sale really

 

[hendrebc]

A lot of old machinery is worth more than it was a few years ago and costs little to keep going
Its better to not need it at all
Where is the farmer with none and no use of contractor's?
Anyone on here got no machinery and dont use contractor's machines ?
None at all
We have got loads of the stuff kicking about
Should have a sale really

Same here we have loads of stuff we have aquired over the last 60+ years since my grandfather was farming here that we dont use often at all. But only this week i dragged an old pig tail harrow thing out of the nettles to level off some of last years ploughing that just had just had turnips spun on top because it was too wet to cultivate. Dont know what it cost new but dad reckoned it had been over 40 years since it last went on a tractor. Probably cost less than £50 back then and it had a lot of use apparently. Cost nothing today and was much kinder of the soil than my old disc was id probably only get £50 for it now if i sold it having seen how good a job it does i can see me using it again to level things off before direct drilling. Will jopefully never use the plough again but you never know. Its not worth anything anyway so its staying here the only thing we have that i never see me using again is an old potato ridger wtf am i going to do with that might use the toolbar it comes on for something i suppose but im really not sure why its here at all this is no potato farm

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Anyone on here got no machinery and dont use contractor's machines ?
None at all

I can only think of one guy around here who would come close and even he has shearing machines and a wool press.
And a car and 6x4 trailer!

But when his old Ford 6610 broke he never replaced it, sold all the implements and just kept less sheep.
He only used it to knock in posts anyway.

He has about a dozen big cattle and 600 ewes on a large, but "poor-looking" farm but obviously just has bugger all costs.
Buys a ram a year and very occasionally needs a new bull but you would love him.

The very essence of a "dog and stick" farmer, just wanders about and opens gates, he has about 80 paddocks and says it keeps him fit in his old age no doubt one day he will buy a quad or something but I can now see where he is coming from in terms of "looking after" as opposed to "working for"

I bet he is doing alright now sheep are worth a bit.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I can only think of one guy around here who would come close and even he has shearing machines and a wool press.
And a car and 6x4 trailer!

But when his old Ford 6610 broke he never replaced it, sold all the implements and just kept less sheep.
He only used it to knock in posts anyway.

He has about a dozen big cattle and 600 ewes on a large, but "poor-looking" farm but obviously just has bugger all costs.
Buys a ram a year and very occasionally needs a new bull but you would love him.

The very essence of a "dog and stick" farmer, just wanders about and opens gates, he has about 80 paddocks and says it keeps him fit in his old age no doubt one day he will buy a quad or something but I can now see where he is coming from in terms of "looking after" as opposed to "working for"

I bet he is doing alright now sheep are worth a bit.

That was the sort of business model I was hoping for when we get there really

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Quite.

But Brexit debates aren't painful at all - they are fascinating, because so many different issues flow therefrom.

(The one that's bugging me, at the moment, is why so many English farmers declare very strong support for a UK politician whom they know is a serial liar, adulterer, etc - they are willing to suspend both belief and moral judgement, so long as he speaks to their identity. That's quite a sobering conclusion in the 21st Century - have we learnt nothing?)

And I'm disappointed in the 'Shoestring' thread - it's been on my mind for a while, toying with the idea, and it's (again) worrying how many farmers equate 'shoestring' with 'old machinery'.

Arthur Street demonstrated that running kit into the ground was merely a game of 'last man standing' - in the end, everyone loses.

But lose:lose situations are not, however, the automatic turn-off you'd think they'd be - again, Brexit demonstrates that it often provokes a 'bring it on' mentality that I would like to explore, one day.

Welcome to one of the 2 best threads on the forum Walter. Pull up a chair, you'll fit right in

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Still on about 16m2 per day for these wee girls. Bit frosty some mornings but the regrowth is reasonably quick so I think we will be OK when they begin going around the second time- still have the covercrops and pea bales if need be to allow a bit more recovery time.

they went in here last Saturday and it is greening up quite nicely behind them

and they came from this one, and before that the one in the top of the picture.
The next rain washed the mud off and it is away.

 

[awkward]

roughly how much of a cover are u leaving at moment and will that rise as season progresses and grass becomes more mature

 

[Farmer Roy]

Welcome to one of the 2 best threads on the forum Walter. Pull up a chair, you'll fit right in

Ha - are we the cool kids ?
Or the ones the cool kids won't talk to ?

Not that it matters
Still one of the better places on TFF to hang out in

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I told @Henarar that I would snare him a picture of outwintered dairy cows below sea level and remembered just as I had gone past most of them, and my rig was a few too many tons and axles to stop!

These fields are approx 18 inches below mean sea level, the floodbanks keep the water out and at low tide the locks open and let the land drains empty.

They are just open drains running into a main channel, just like a flood irrigation system but in reverse.

The massive 1878 storm completely changed this particular area, it was going to be THE main southern port but the Clutha river no longer goes out to sea here; it changed the course and the mouth of the river.
Now there is a lagoon that runs along the back of the beach and this smaller river goes at right angles for about 5 miles behind it.... the power of nature!

It would have been "Dunedin", where these cows are today.
Even 'The Octagon' is surveyed out, but was not to be, it is dairy farms instead...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

roughly how much of a cover are u leaving at moment and will that rise as season progresses and grass becomes more mature

I would say on a plate meter it would be 5 clicks, or 1500kgDM/ha. I don't like to skin them out as then they'll take forever to come back, even with daily moves and backfences preventing them backgrazing.

But definitely it will rise, the more I can leave within reason the less critical it all becomes, and the shorter next winter will be.
By January hopefully 80% of the farm will be kneedeep covers, whatever that equates to.
Leaf area index is the all-important driver here.

The main thing is to move them fast, and aim for maximum animal impact, I may take on some of the neighbour's dairy replacements to help with preventing senescence.... but as I often say, they'll eat it in May if not before...

A fair part of the pasture isn't ryegrass, which helps with summer quality, we have a heap of clover, and also Timothy, poa pratensis, sweet vernal, crested dogstail, a little browntop in places, cocksfoot, fescues... it's really only the ryegrass that nothing much likes to eat when it goes stemmy.

What isn't good for the stock, is good for the soil, anyway.
Everything has its day in the sun, across the year, the diversity helps with extending the growing season and therefore the grazing season.

But, I am not too concerned with the amounts as I have an abundance mentality when it comes to covers, my main focus is on recovery times as opposed to amounts of pasture.

 

[Farmer Roy]

I would say on a plate meter it would be 5 clicks, or 1500kgDM/ha. I don't like to skin them out as then they'll take forever to come back, even with daily moves and backfences preventing them backgrazing.

But definitely it will rise, the more I can leave within reason the less critical it all becomes, and the shorter next winter will be.
By January hopefully 80% of the farm will be kneedeep covers, whatever that equates to.
Leaf area index is the all-important driver here.

The main thing is to move them fast, and aim for maximum animal impact, I may take on some of the neighbour's dairy replacements to help with preventing senescence.... but as I often say, they'll eat it in May if not before...

A fair part of the pasture isn't ryegrass, which helps with summer quality, we have a heap of clover, and also Timothy, poa pratensis, sweet vernal, crested dogstail, a little browntop in places, cocksfoot, fescues... it's really only the ryegrass that nothing much likes to eat when it goes stemmy.

What isn't good for the stock, is good for the soil, anyway.
Everything has its day in the sun, across the year, the diversity helps with extending the growing season and therefore the grazing season.

But, I am not too concerned with the amounts as I have an abundance mentality when it comes to covers, my main focus is on recovery times as opposed to amounts of pasture.

Bloody ryegrass, why would anyone bother with it ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

anyway, complete change of topic

has anyone had any experience of large scale worm farming, in particular extracting worm "juice" & castings ?
in a large scale ?

How big a scale are we talking here?

Sorry to miss your question, one of the better systems I have seen is basically a terrace system where the food is placed on top and the water simply flows downhill through each bay, like a series of pools in a stream is the best analogy.
It has a perforated "soak hose" in each one with pressurised air to keep them well aerated and a black cover of breathable membrane to help keep them warm and humid.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Bloody ryegrass, why would anyone bother with it ?

In the right system there is not much wrong with it - except my system doesn't require it, as when it gets the slightest bit of stress it runs to seed and is quite unpalatable. It doesn't do dry. It loves nitrogen, at the cost of the slower-shorter- growing species that have better roots and nutritional properties.

But, it's good fibre and makes a lot of biomass which helps build soil, so it's not a loss, just not much of a benefit unless you like wearing out tractor seats and pumping diesel. Which I do not.

 

[Farmer Roy]

In the right system there is not much wrong with it - except my system doesn't require it, as when it gets the slightest bit of stress it runs to seed and is quite unpalatable. It doesn't do dry. It loves nitrogen, at the cost of the slower-shorter- growing species that have better roots and nutritional properties.

But, it's good fibre and makes a lot of biomass which helps build soil, so it's not a loss, just not much of a benefit unless you like wearing out tractor seats and pumping diesel. Which I do not.

In other words, it's a bit of a high maintenance softcock show pony

 

[CornishTone]

anyway, complete change of topic

has anyone had any experience of large scale worm farming, in particular extracting worm "juice" & castings ?
in a large scale ?

We stock this in the store...
https://www.wormhit.com.au
Clever marketing double entendres. Gardner’s buy a bit. I keep meaning to throw some around our garden.

 

[Farmer Roy]

How big a scale are we talking here?

Sorry to miss your question, one of the better systems I have seen is basically a terrace system where the food is placed on top and the water simply flows downhill through each bay, like a series of pools in a stream is the best analogy.
It has a perforated "soak hose" in each one with pressurised air to keep them well aerated and a black cover of breathable membrane to help keep them warm and humid.

Err, big enough to produce enough worm wee to furrow inject into 2000 acres of crops when planting, plus maybe a bit more for foliar etc ?

Got any photos

 

[Farmer Roy]

We stock this in the store...
https://www.wormhit.com.au
Clever marketing double entendres. Gardner’s buy a bit. I keep meaning to throw some around our garden.

Anyone use it in a broadacre setting ?
While I've got your attention, do you have any thoughts or comments on products like Seasol in a broadacre farming environment ?
Am interested in / heard good things about this https://nutrisoil.com.au/, but then, why can't I make something similar myself ?

 

[Farmer Roy]

How big a scale are we talking here?

Sorry to miss your question, one of the better systems I have seen is basically a terrace system where the food is placed on top and the water simply flows downhill through each bay, like a series of pools in a stream is the best analogy.
It has a perforated "soak hose" in each one with pressurised air to keep them well aerated and a black cover of breathable membrane to help keep them warm and humid.

Off the top of my head, say big enough to produce 2000 - 4000 litres per annum ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Err, big enough to produce enough worm wee to furrow inject into 2000 acres of crops when planting, plus maybe a bit more for foliar etc ?

Got any photos

No I don't unfortunately

It is 18 old baths dug into a bit of a slope

The plughole of one drips into the next

And he feeds them with a silage wagon

I think he just buried a bit of alkathene to the workshop and plumbed it up to all the soak-hoses, and that's the air supply, it is overland to help warm the air up for a fair part of the journey not very expensive and makes very nice tea