"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

Changing the subject as usual, but what would you grow with grass, to avoid a monoculture?

We do include clover, but going on my earlier post on hard ground when ploughing up ley this is part of problem.

Normally establish grass at same time as barley undersowing it. It will get poached by cattle, no sheep.

For me, it's a tricky one - as others have suggested, diversity of root structure seems to be what "the soil notices"..

However, it does depend on your context, as to your approach to embracing complexity/biodiversity.
When it gets wet, most of the shallow rooting but productive (invasive?) grasses seem to take over, and in the dry the opposite seems to be true - and on huge scale, it's often more productive by far, to just "let it happen" or "build it, and they'll come" as the suitable species will probably be there, simply change management to allow for them.

A farming context does vary, as it is usually built around human input, and the financials are usually accomodating this (ie crop rotations, harvesting things, reseeding depleted pastures or replacing them).
I'd possibly look at plants such as chicory/plantain as really bringing a lot to the party - they can tap into a lot of resources that grasses cannot, and also using a dash of other clover species with different attributes - annual clovers, persian, arrowleaf, red - as they will all provide wonderful succession throughout the growing season, and largely take over if the summer gets too hot for your grasses.
They'll also reduce the need for mulching/topping to maintain quality during summer, which means your grasses then get a chance to reproduce, which then means your grasses last, instead of needing to be reseeded (even one year in 3 will be more than enough to allow for plant succession).

In the current, and likely the future, reducing the need to do stuff that ideally doesn't need to be done, will be as good as money in the bank - I'd actually be quite worried about my future if my system needed expenditure year on year to achieve what nature can do for free - because you know there will be people out there with lower costs.

Back to your question, and I'm really not too sure about your climate details - but I'm using cocksfoot, brome, plantain for cool season growth, none of which seem to be as touchy as a ryegrass/WC mix.

Radish and oats are a bit of a given in a reseed, just for that fast groundcover/canopy/begin to feed the soil/protect the grass from the wind benefit, but they won't persist.

I also like a bit of timothy, it puts an extra few weeks on the growing season at either end and animals love it, even when it has its 'pipecleaner' going on.

So there are lots of things that you can add to your seed mix, really. I like to make every seed mix a little different, and do try to let them "go to hay" if I can, that way you can get the leverage from your spend - you might put down 35kg/ha, left alone your crop of grass may put down 500kgs!

And yes, I am a part-time seed salesperson, also a realist - there is much more to agriculture than output!

 

[Chae1]

I reseeded 12 acres in autumn. Its poorer land next to a forest. Basically when clearing land they stopped there as thought land not good enough.

Id like to try giving it no fertiliser and see how it does. Plenty clover in mix as long as frost doesn't kill it. Land in good heart, never been cut for silage, got clarted in muck last winter and had 2t/acre of lime.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What do you see on rough ground, road verges etc?
I think I've said before that here it's largely dominated by cockfoot, fescue, red clover at this time of the year - which is a good clue for me - that with a change in management to stop overgrazing, these will be the species that will come.

I'm already seeing this, even with my half-pie attempts, so better subdivision is my "reseed" - in effect it will be my animal health plan, my winter feed, and my lamb finishing!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I'll put up some pictures of my reseed, as soon as there is some better groundcover

I'm embarrassed to have 4 acres of "dirt" but pleased to report there's a definite green tinge, some decent looking radish seedlings etc, and quite a bit of grass starting to come.
Some of the species will be quite slow to properly establish, so I don't even have a plan to graze it before winter - it needs to heal the land first.

The reason I asked about the thistles and docks is that these species often show up next to wooded areas, the soil is used to being quite fungal, quite carboniferous; and so if you grow grass with fert - ie, make it more nitrogenous, more bacterial, then these guys will pop up as indicators.
They're trying to balance the soil, same as your legumes will fix nitrogen harder, if you put down carbon/feed less nitrogen.

Effectively by applying soluble N, you're simply buying yourself less soil nitrogen than you would have had without it - provided you have legumes in your crops of course... you'd end up with more soil nitrogen putting 60kg of peas on than 60 units of urea etc.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I just had the following little pearls dropped on my lap, as an indication of why we operate the way we do.
I think it explains a lot.

I am sorry if it counters the claims that British farmers don't get enough for their produce; it is what it is.

 

[texas pete]

I just had the following little pearls dropped on my lap, as an indication of why we operate the way we do.
I think it explains a lot.View attachment 758238 View attachment 758240
I am sorry if it counters the claims that British farmers don't get enough for their produce; it is what it is.

Some would never get enough....

Argentina, free trade deal here we come..

Interesting to see how the gap in lamb value has narrowed over time. Tighter supply that's for sure. Maybe that's why breeding sheep were over $300NZD in the last sale yard report I read. Not bought breeders since 2012, but I have never paid anything like that..

 

[York]

Much of the opposition we face is simply due to what we already know, or think we know - and what we think is working.
Boss is a good example but to be fair there are plenty of examples around in a similar boat - myself being one of them.

We've gone from 17 paddocks up to around 50 and seen quite a bit of difference, but struggle to even imagine 430 paddocks - just because we haven't actually seen it (here), or seen what it does, here...

So that may be tomorrow's job, yet.. we need to see some real high density grazing, as in our sort of conditions there seems to be a "tipping point" at around 250,000kg LWT/ha, where your stock go from being harvesters to something much better!
Then we can use that evidence, rather than make assumptions..

Assumptions like inputs and outputs being the driver behind management and actions, nature never spent a cent on some things that are assumed to be completely necessary.
If we can create the flexibility to (for example) have up to 200 days plant recovery, or run several different mobs at times without eating into plant recovery, then what more do we need?

200 days is an awful long time - but 200 years is still a blink in the timeframe of the natural world.
Everyone has these constraints, and is probably looking at some type of "hamster wheel"

wouldn't a good shepherd, for at least some part of the day, a very efficient "high dencity" grazing the option?

 

[Farmer Roy]

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

View attachment 758596

Who needs Canaries anyway? It's not like they earn you shite loads

 

[texas pete]

https://www.theguardian.com/sustain...kemYCPg4WTnsE_5MabWWk13AZ83TyoE0dBYuxAez_FnqQ

 

[Macsky]

https://www.theguardian.com/sustain...kemYCPg4WTnsE_5MabWWk13AZ83TyoE0dBYuxAez_FnqQ

Not often I agree with much I see in the guardian! That must really confuse some of their readership - farming can be good!?????? [emoji23]

 

[Agrispeed]

Not often I agree with much I see in the guardian! That must really confuse
Some of their readership - farming can be good!?????? [emoji23]

Some of the comments are quite amusing

 

[tinsheet]

Watch this fascinating stuff
https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_sav...nd_reverse_climate_change/discussion#t-786433

 

[Sheila Cooke]

Good morning, I am posting you a message to me from Allan Savory. Please spread his new blog far and wide on your social media. Many kind thanks. Sheila

Sheila,
I have just seen this report about thousands of German public demanding more sensible agriculture https://www.ecowatch.com/berlin-pro...ail&utm_term=0_49c7d43dc9-5589a89e2f-86089133
This makes me think it would be a good idea to get my recent blog to them somehow, and that made me think it could be useful if our various hubs translated it to their languages - Spanish, French, German, Swedish so will bounce the idea (this is the blog to which I refer https://bit.ly/2HjzXD2 ) I have already asked Jorgen if he can try to ensure it gets into the hands of Greta Thunberg.
When you are teaching the financial planning I think you know the single idea that has most immediate effect in increasing profit is that of planning it before costs, and thus forcing you to cut expenses because almost all in agriculture think profit comes from income when it doesn’t. It comes from cutting costs because income increases costs of production due to human nature.
Allan

Allan Savory
President, Savory Institute, Boulder, Colorado, USA.
Chairman, Africa Centre for Holistic Management, Zimbabwe
www: savory.global
www.africacentreforholisticmanagement.org

 

[foobar]

https://www.theguardian.com/sustain...kemYCPg4WTnsE_5MabWWk13AZ83TyoE0dBYuxAez_FnqQ

That article was from 2015 - The Guardian have changed sides since then.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Good old Guardian.

Sorry to be a bit quiet on here of late.. I've had a bit of a breakthrough .

I went to see a guy, who came for our open day and listened a lot to my concerns, he was quite enthusiastic - especially about our financial performance, but could also spot our weak point at the moment.

So, I wagged the afternoon off work, and went for a drive, a couple of hours inland, and went to see his technograzing ranch



Now I wonder what I've been doing, messing about with all the portable stuff.

So, I have a bit of a plan coming together about how I'm going to further subdivide my little place up.... it isn't actually going to be as difficult as I thought for a start, after seeing what he has, I know where to begin - seeing is believing.

 

[Henarar]

Instead of having lots of fencing to pen animals in around fields or sub dividing fields while they graze why can't you just have one lot that moves along with the animals in it, one water supply that moves with it, everything you need to graze them anywhere

I have lots of fencing out in the fields at the moment thousands of pounds worth if you had to buy it from scratch and most of it is doing nothing at any one time, whats the point in that ? and the more they are bunched up and the quicker the moves the less fencing is being used at any one time

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Instead of having lots of fencing to pen animals in around fields or sub dividing fields while they graze why can't you just have one lot that moves along with the animals in it, one water supply that moves with it, everything you need to graze them anywhere

I have lots of fencing out in the fields at the moment thousands of pounds worth if you had to buy it from scratch and most of it is doing nothing at any one time, whats the point in that ? and the more they are bunched up and the quicker the moves the less fencing is being used at any one time

I guess all that I'm doing, effectively, is buying myself more time to watch and observe, rather than being a man on a mission

Boxing my stock up also leveraged my time quite well, but then it also has negative effects, my stock always seem to be moving too quickly and once it's set up then it's quite difficult to respond fast - lower covers exacerbate that a bit too - but as you say it is money sitting there.

My plan now is that I could probably have the best of both, even if all I do is split (for example, in my scenario) a 120 by 200 metre field into 4 lanes, 30x200 , just a post at each end and a single polywire, and a stake every 30 yards or so. For now, all my existing temporary gear would fence up one field into cells, but could easily do 9 mobs if I had the long runs already set out.

So, I could have a lot more control over what they are doing, rather than having to suddenly fall off the plan if a storm hits, it's all there to just move them, or open up a bit more area, or put 3 separate mobs behind one hedge if it snows etc.

The biggest thing I saw was his whole landscape had heaps and heaps of cover, and you could ride along their strip as a timeline to see how long the grass was taking to recover.
The big benefit I saw was just how mobbed up the cattle were, and how well that was working.

The other thing I really liked was the diversity aspect, like trees in every 4th cell, turkeys running around everywhere and the absolute din of about 30000 skylarks

It's funny when you go on so many farms that are made to work, to go onto one that is really working well..... you get a really clear picture what you could do.

I have this type of cover on maybe one-fifth of the ranch, and he has 3 fifths or more covered up - foggage farming co

 

[onesiedale]

Good old Guardian.

Sorry to be a bit quiet on here of late.. I've had a bit of a breakthrough .

I went to see a guy, who came for our open day and listened a lot to my concerns, he was quite enthusiastic - especially about our financial performance, but could also spot our weak point at the moment.

So, I wagged the afternoon off work, and went for a drive, a couple of hours inland, and went to see his technograzing ranch



Now I wonder what I've been doing, messing about with all the portable stuff.

So, I have a bit of a plan coming together about how I'm going to further subdivide my little place up.... it isn't actually going to be as difficult as I thought for a start, after seeing what he has, I know where to begin - seeing is believing.

We like a bit of a plan

 

[texas pete]

That article was from 2015 - The Guardian have changed sides since then.

Maybe I'll check the date on the article next time, interesting read all the same... Joined the Dark Side they have.