"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Blaithin]

wildflowers dont like competition..

That’s about it. It’s not that they don’t like fertile soil, it’s just grasses and other plants in that fertile soil out compete them.

Also when you’re grazing a pasture it’s hard to find the wildflowers if they keep getting grazed and never actually bloom

 

[Bury the Trash]

another part of same field

 

[Bury the Trash]

That’s about it. It’s not that they don’t like fertile soil, it’s just grasses and other plants in that fertile soil out compete them.

Also when you’re grazing a pasture it’s hard to find the wildflowers if they keep getting grazed and never actually bloom

exactly, apart from like real diehards creeping butter cup type rhyzomes etc they need to seed , annuals, perennials whatever....

 

[Fenwick]

That’s about it. It’s not that they don’t like fertile soil, it’s just grasses and other plants in that fertile soil out compete them.

If i look at the species in my field and those the other side of the fence on the roadside. The difference in species is huge. With the roadside species comprising many more non grass species including wildflowers. Is the soil really that different 10cm apart? Or is it the management that is different?

exactly, apart from like real diehards creeping butter cup type rhyzomes etc they need to seed , annuals, perennials whatever....

So if they need to reseed then could it not be a management issue? I let a number of my sown pasture species such as grasses and plantain reseed from time to time.

 

[Bury the Trash]

If i look at the species in my field and those the other side of the fence on the roadside. The difference in species is huge. With the roadside species comprising many more non grass species including wildflowers. Is the soil really that different 10cm apart? Or is it the management that is different?



So if they need to reseed then could it not be a management issue? I let a number of my sown pasture species such as grasses and plantain reseed from time to time.

Of course its management issue.who said it wasnt ?

 

[Fenwick]

Sorry, thought the implication was that it was the fertile soil.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

@Kiwi Pete pic


View attachment 843500
just moved a flock of 180 off here, its 10 acres and they have been there for exactly 3 wks. part of the field is drier ground than this admitted ly but most of it is 8inches of loam over clay,and not that far from the river.

Do you measure your rainfall, just wonder how much rain fell in those 3 weeks?
Good stuff, you take nice clear photos
I'm a big fan of broadcast over drilling too for that very reason

 

[Blaithin]

If i look at the species in my field and those the other side of the fence on the roadside. The difference in species is huge. With the roadside species comprising many more non grass species including wildflowers. Is the soil really that different 10cm apart? Or is it the management that is different?

A lot of grass species are rhizomatous, off the top of my head I can’t think of any wildflowers that are. They rely on reseeding to propagate while rhizomatous plants don’t. If management doesn’t allow plants to go to seed periodically than it only makes sense that eventually the seeding only ones would die back while rhizomatous ones take over.

It would be interesting to see what the ratio of rhizomatous species is within your field compared to outside your field.

 

[ShooTa]

creeping buttercup is my nemisis here - its everywhere and colonises any soily gaps - that or moss..........

 

[Henarar]

creeping buttercup is my nemisis here - its everywhere and colonises any soily gaps - that or moss..........

Fecking stuff

 

[Woolless]

I haven't looked in to this thread for some time but @Kiwi Pete has stirred my grey matter into life again with a couple of posts over on the livestock forum. I have a bit to catch up on!

Been watching a few Greg Judy vids online and just ordered his second book (intersting to hear other opinions on his methods?), plus doing a bit of other reading around the holistic/mob grazing topic. Alan Savory's book is in the 'to read' pile as well. So there may be some daft questions on the way!

Anyway, a practical query first: What is the best way to deal with rushes using this type of approach? There's a farm local to me which I suspect will grow grass for fun and which I have expressed a very preliminary interest in farming/renting/partnering on, 500 acres supporting 70 suckler cows currently but a lot of it is badly overgrown with rushes. Were it a conventional farm, then I would be confident that topping followed by weedwiping would be enough for the grass to get the upper hand. But the place is organic and I would imagine that the owner would be only too pleased to hold on to that status (and so the extra sub payment!). Any ideas??

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Do any of you fancy joining me on the Natural Environment Research Council webinar run by Niels Corfield around the impact of soil health on flood risk?

Webinar Series - NERC Natural Flood Management research programme

Our series of 60-minute webinars ran between October 2019 to November 2021 to allow NFM researchers and practitioners to share knowledge and experience. Recordings of the webinars are available here....Read More >

research.reading.ac.uk

This is the second in the series. The first, around research on restoring natural processes in the peat uplands between The Peak District and Manchester, was very interesting.

 

[ShooTa]

@Woolless - start by asking yourself what the rushes are telling you...
what ground or the soil is creating the right conditions for the rushes to grow vs whats not growing allowing them to grow.
think about what those things are and then change the management options - what would change IF you held stock on that area for a limited time but at very high stocking rates - possibly needing to add feed initially. - what would happen if you baled the rushes for use as bedding later in the year and then grazed for short duration long rest. - what would happen if you let it rest for a whole year?

 

[ShooTa]

Do any of you fancy joining me on the Natural Environment Research Council webinar run by Nils Corfield around the impact of soil health on flood risk?

Webinar Series - NERC Natural Flood Management research programme

Our series of 60-minute webinars ran between October 2019 to November 2021 to allow NFM researchers and practitioners to share knowledge and experience. Recordings of the webinars are available here....Read More >

research.reading.ac.uk

This is the second in the series. The first, around research on restoring natural processes in the peat uplands between The Peak District and Manchester, was very interesting.

i might...Just listening or helping the discussion?

 

[Woolless]

@Woolless - start by asking yourself what the rushes are telling you...
what ground or the soil is creating the right conditions for the rushes to grow vs whats not growing allowing them to grow.
think about what those things are and then change the management options - what would change IF you held stock on that area for a limited time but at very high stocking rates - possibly needing to add feed initially. - what would happen if you baled the rushes for use as bedding later in the year and then grazed for short duration long rest. - what would happen if you let it rest for a whole year?

I haven't been able to get a close enough look at the ground to tell you any more than there's loads of rushes. Ground must be wet (farm name suggests that!). More OM would help that? Putting that aside, my stab at it was topping the rushes early on when they've started to grow, followed by high intensity grazing followed by rest. Maybe some hay fed out would help too, adding some seed? Never thought of baling them. Would use as bedding not run the risk of spreading rush seed everywhere when dung goes out?

 

[bitwrx]

I haven't looked in to this thread for some time but @Kiwi Pete has stirred my grey matter into life again with a couple of posts over on the livestock forum. I have a bit to catch up on!

Been watching a few Greg Judy vids online and just ordered his second book (intersting to hear other opinions on his methods?), plus doing a bit of other reading around the holistic/mob grazing topic. Alan Savory's book is in the 'to read' pile as well. So there may be some daft questions on the way!

Anyway, a practical query first: What is the best way to deal with rushes using this type of approach? There's a farm local to me which I suspect will grow grass for fun and which I have expressed a very preliminary interest in farming/renting/partnering on, 500 acres supporting 70 suckler cows currently but a lot of it is badly overgrown with rushes. Were it a conventional farm, then I would be confident that topping followed by weedwiping would be enough for the grass to get the upper hand. But the place is organic and I would imagine that the owner would be only too pleased to hold on to that status (and so the extra sub payment!). Any ideas??

@Agrispeed has some direct experience I believe.

 

[Henarar]

I haven't looked in to this thread for some time but @Kiwi Pete has stirred my grey matter into life again with a couple of posts over on the livestock forum. I have a bit to catch up on!

Been watching a few Greg Judy vids online and just ordered his second book (intersting to hear other opinions on his methods?), plus doing a bit of other reading around the holistic/mob grazing topic. Alan Savory's book is in the 'to read' pile as well. So there may be some daft questions on the way!

Anyway, a practical query first: What is the best way to deal with rushes using this type of approach? There's a farm local to me which I suspect will grow grass for fun and which I have expressed a very preliminary interest in farming/renting/partnering on, 500 acres supporting 70 suckler cows currently but a lot of it is badly overgrown with rushes. Were it a conventional farm, then I would be confident that topping followed by weedwiping would be enough for the grass to get the upper hand. But the place is organic and I would imagine that the owner would be only too pleased to hold on to that status (and so the extra sub payment!). Any ideas??

spread some burt lime on them and the cows will eat them out

 

[onesiedale]

Do you measure your rainfall, just wonder how much rain fell in those 3 weeks?
Good stuff, you take nice clear photos
I'm a big fan of broadcast over drilling too for that very reason

Been measuring our rainfall .
We've had 15 inches (375mm) in the last 4 weeks. ?
The ground really can't take much more. Cows are in full time and the heifers are moving over their deferred grass bit quicker than I had hoped

 

[onesiedale]

there may be some daft questions on the way!

@Woolless
There's no such thing as a daft question on this forum, or anywhere for that matter.

I used to work for a market research company and the boss there always maintained that if one person asks a question, there are at least a dozen others thinking the same.

 

[Woolless]

spread some burt lime on them and the cows will eat them out

What's burt lime? I've never heard of it.