"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[GreenerGrass]

My fields are absolutely waterlogged- better than the neighbours and there are some drier patches but not great at all. We are heavy clay and have been trying to farm in the vein of this thread for the last 3 years. I am wondering am I better to feed hay ad lib on an existing paddock which is fairly well trashed -or to keep them moving and trash as I go. It's 10th December and there is a long time until winter is out.... feeling down about the whole thing. Weather has been unrelenting.

 

[Treg]

My fields are absolutely waterlogged- better than the neighbours and there are some drier patches but not great at all. We are heavy clay and have been trying to farm in the vein of this thread for the last 3 years. I am wondering am I better to feed hay ad lib on an existing paddock which is fairly well trashed -or to keep them moving and trash as I go. It's 10th December and there is a long time until winter is out.... feeling down about the whole thing. Weather has been unrelenting.

I would consider this a dry farm but it certainly isn't at the moment.
It was surprising yesterday with a bit of wind how much things dried up but we're back to wet again today.
I've kept the young stock that are out moving but they're going round the farm faster than they normally would.

 

[Blaithin]

My fields are absolutely waterlogged- better than the neighbours and there are some drier patches but not great at all. We are heavy clay and have been trying to farm in the vein of this thread for the last 3 years. I am wondering am I better to feed hay ad lib on an existing paddock which is fairly well trashed -or to keep them moving and trash as I go. It's 10th December and there is a long time until winter is out.... feeling down about the whole thing. Weather has been unrelenting.

I use a sacrifice pasture. Different issues affect it compared to what you have but it’s what it’s name implies, a sacrifice for winter feeding.

I do try to rotate that yearly so what was my sacrifice last year won’t be the main sacrifice this year. In that way I try and help it out instead of just beating it down year after year. I also take it out of rotation as much as possible in summer so it can just regroup.

 

[Fenwick]

Once over with the power harrow, intended to jingle some seed on but didn't got round to it! Never seen Plantain (Rib Grass) with such big leaves, amazing the seedbank in old permanent pasture.

Plantain can get big if you give it a chance. Photo taken this morning - all are well over my wellies.

Damn. You were near the top of my 'most likely' list. I swear I wasn't dreaming it. Probably.

Worth noting the Scottish agriculturalist was from properly olden times. Like 17 hundred and something.

Did Robert Elliot talk about something like that? He was in the scottish borders although perhaps a few decades later.
I only remember his work on seed mixes.

Still moving cattle round. Down into the valley now.

About 3 weeks left until we run out of grass.
Still plenty deep, and doesn't look to bad.

 

[Henarar]

What worried me most when I started my suckler herd was whether I could keep the calves quiet enough but they are really quiet even the Vet has said to me I've got the quietest herd she's come across.
I find the calves go through stages start off quiet then get independent & more shy , then just when they get near weaning they get really tame & like being petted.
Time petting cows & calves is time well spent.

You want some of our blues we get fed up with pushing them, some of them have been PD'd by the vet in the middle of the yard

 

[Samcowman]

Sat down this evening and worked out the final tally for the steers on rotation I posted pictures of this last summer. The variation within the same field is massive and really hits home how much of a difference overgrazing on the first rotation really cocked some of the paddocks up (3.1 and 3.2) and the ones I only took tips off and left plenty (1.3 and 4.1) performed the best. The bottom 3 were all silaged first. In reality there were more grazing days than this because I ran the in calf heifers around some of it for a bit but that’s when my recording fell apart and some would have quite a few days more on from them.
Lessons learnt first round is the most important and try to keep them on daily shifts otherwise they preferentially graze too much.

 

[Farmer Roy]

but combined with a farming for profit mentality the regen ag can also be shown to do less work and be less stressful - show me a farmer that doesnt want that.

haha - have a look at the TAW thread

or many others “elsewhere” on THFF

seems to be a source of pride & a badge of honour to be overworked & stressed

not a “real” farmer if your not, apparently . . .

 

[bitwrx]

Sat down this evening and worked out the final tally for the steers on rotation I posted pictures of this last summer. The variation within the same field is massive and really hits home how much of a difference overgrazing on the first rotation really cocked some of the paddocks up (3.1 and 3.2) and the ones I only took tips off and left plenty (1.3 and 4.1) performed the best. The bottom 3 were all silaged first. In reality there were more grazing days than this because I ran the in calf heifers around some of it for a bit but that’s when my recording fell apart and some would have quite a few days more on from them.
Lessons learnt first round is the most important and try to keep them on daily shifts otherwise they preferentially graze too much.
View attachment 848129

So the higher animal days/ha equates to a higher output per ha? Presumably on the assumption that the amount of grass left now is equal across all paddocks?

 

[Samcowman]

So the higher animal days/ha equates to a higher output per ha? Presumably on the assumption that the amount of grass left now is equal across all paddocks?

Correct. Pretty much, walked over the field today bloody hell its wet out. Really cocked up by not recording the heifers days but it wouldn’t have made much difference to the order of things.
Also getting them out earlier next year will help I reckon.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Correct. Pretty much, walked over the field today bloody hell its wet out. Really cocked up by not recording the heifers days but it wouldn’t have made much difference to the order of things.
Also getting them out earlier next year will help I reckon.

That's our goal too, hence wanting to work in with a BIG farmer. By the time we'd get weaned calves or store lambs it's several months too late, and wintering the numbers we'd need isn't really feasible.

Much as I'd love to have more owned stock I love my ranch too much for that... and the easiest way to big animal impact is big mobs until we get our system setup better

 

[Farmer Roy]

From Wilmot Cattle Co ( Stuart Austin )

My thoughts on the perceived NEED to educate cattle to hot wires...I don’t think you need to, I think you just need to educate cattle.

353 cows 80 calves
9.5ha
37hd/ha

There’s also a bit about fescue management...

What say you?

https://www.facebook.com/203783620305018/posts/270090360341010

 

[Kiwi Pete]

From Wilmot Cattle Co ( Stuart Austin )

My thoughts on the perceived NEED to educate cattle to hot wires...I don’t think you need to, I think you just need to educate cattle.

353 cows 80 calves
9.5ha
37hd/ha

There’s also a bit about fescue management...

What say you?

https://www.facebook.com/203783620305018/posts/270090360341010

That's more like it, that's more along the lines of what our existing infrastructure here is set up for...

Interesting about the fescue management too, because that's quite different to our grasses but the attack is the same. We've found the "getting on top of" seems to stress the grass more the earlier you do it, so we've tried the softly approach early (mainly due to lack of numbers) and then nip it in the boot+add 3 weeks to recovery times about this part of the season.

Any tiller that isn't grazed early is just left alone in subsequent grazings with our stock classes (because we don't push them hard enough, we want to grow them quickly and trade them before summer hits us) but with big burly beef cows it would be a different ballgame

Still gets you to about the same place, but in quite a different context to what we've done with store cattle/lambs in the past; mainly we're attempting to coach our plants up out of the ground after 20+ years of being over-eaten and under-trampled

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is what I call a bit of an up and down fence,, so used 2 wires, @onesiedale - sort of one for the lambs and one for the cows 'coz of the big dip over the brow, there.View attachment 847972
Flat contour, I just use one on the 3rd clip with these stakes, and this oneView attachment 847973on the plastic fantastics. Love these ones.
So many options and last for ages if you don't bend the steel peg, that begins the rust time-bomb ticking. At least half of these will be 20-30 years old

Wee experiment complete, @onesiedale, we really pushed things in here as I wanted this side properly honed out - but no escapees, all the same.
They had a full 3 hours extra time on their hectare, which I wouldn't normally be doing but for this whole area being smashed in the wintertime.
So I wanted to pare this half right back, in the hopes that little skin we created cracks vertically and aerates itself a little, but wow is it soft!
Amazingly soft and uncompacted - other than the top 1/2 inch.
I think we have enough grass reserve to take the gamble on being able to rest this up awhile and then it can be our first setaside, I've put a lot of seed on this paddock.

 

[GreenerGrass]

My fields are absolutely waterlogged- better than the neighbours and there are some drier patches but not great at all. We are heavy clay and have been trying to farm in the vein of this thread for the last 3 years. I am wondering am I better to feed hay ad lib on an existing paddock which is fairly well trashed -or to keep them moving and trash as I go. It's 10th December and there is a long time until winter is out.... feeling down about the whole thing. Weather has been unrelenting.

I'm about to give up. Another inch of rain due tonorrow. Going to be moving one lamb mob into the barn in the next couple of days. Never had to do this before. Fields getting a mess, although I'm not so worried about that, as can mitigate and improve soil, but more importantly animal condition going backwards, and it's a hell of a lot of work hauling hay and cake to them.

Don't understand how everyone else can be so chirpy. It's proper grim. May destock another mob jn a couple of weeks into a barn. But for now trying to keep the remaining two mobs out.

 

[Doc]

Having just read Savoury’s book there is a get out clause. He does point out that in high humidity temperate climes that the model may not work. Indeed none of the working models alluded to I read about were in a UK type environment.
So, take heart and do what works for you in the conditions you have. I have no suitable winter grazing areas here on pennine boulder clay derived soils, so all mine are tucked up inside until May. The mower and baler were the ‘herd’ and the muck spreader will complete the herd cycle (albeit a bit slower temporarily speaking) when it finally stops feckin raining or a decent freeze occurs.
Horses for courses..

 

[Blaithin]

Most of those holistic author scenarios need some tweaking in order to function in Canada as well.

You either have to find someone fairly local who’s implementing regen ag practices (I’m lucky I’ve got Steve Kenyon fairly close by), or you have to experiment and write about it yourself so you can be the person other people find who’s doing that kind of stuff.

 

[Karliboy]

Most of those holistic author scenarios need some tweaking in order to function in Canada as well.

You either have to find someone fairly local who’s implementing regen ag practices (I’m lucky I’ve got Steve Kenyon fairly close by), or you have to experiment and write about it yourself so you can be the person other people find who’s doing that kind of stuff.

i was thinking about this the other day unfortunately there is very few/ nobody i know off doing anything like this in my local area apart from @Doc and maybe texel ben.

i would really like someone with some experience in regen ag top pop around to see my lot and pass comment as to what they would do with it one day and hopefully not say fill it full off trees

 

[Blaithin]

i was thinking about this the other day unfortunately there is very few/ nobody i know off doing anything like this in my local area apart from @Doc and maybe texel ben.

i would really like someone with some experience in regen ag top pop around to see my lot and pass comment as to what they would do with it one day and hopefully not say fill it full off trees

I won’t say there’s a lot around me, but I’m learning of more and more every month it seems. The problem is that most of them aren’t big online presences. They’re just doing their thing. Once you learn about them they’re almost all open to talking to almost anyone but it’s finding them first.

Try Facebook regen groups and see if there’s anyone in your area. Here the universities are also good sources of information and there’s various forage and grazing groups. And twitter. The more I find on twitter, the more retweets I see of people to follow on Twitter. It’s rather ridiculous actually

 

[onesiedale]

i was thinking about this the other day unfortunately there is very few/ nobody i know off doing anything like this in my local area apart from @Doc and maybe texel ben.

i would really like someone with some experience in regen ag top pop around to see my lot and pass comment as to what they would do with it one day and hopefully not say fill it full off trees

When they come to you, could you please send them over the hill and down to us afterwards ?

 

[onesiedale]

When they come to you, could you please send them over the hill and down to us afterwards ?

@Karliboy maybe we should just start by visiting each other and sharing our dilemmas
Your more than welcome to come down here. Just don't tell me to fill it with trees!