"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Bury the Trash]

Organic dairy farm next door put some in this year, wants me to graze it down to stalks with sheep this winter. I didn't think it was a good idea, but don't know anything about the stuff. Do they graze it with sheep in NZ over winter?

I did when I had it because here everything gets grazed to within an inch of its life in late winter...

The varieties vary a bit I guess, I could've just been lucky with ' marshal' but it seemed to stick more that what is generally recommended on the ' leaflets ' advice.
All I know Doug Avery grazes it , they went over to grazing it from conserving, that was his big transformation, on dry ground / drought conditions anyway.

 

[Gulli]

the drier end, up near wincanton.
and our earlier bit, matured to early

We are near wincanton and it's not f**king dry here

 

[Karliboy]

[emoji106] That's where I'm going wrong, need more coats & water from the tap not the trough! Have you been making some brood frames up in that pic?

They are my kid brothers.
I need to find a new home for his stuff as he passed away last Thursday morning after a 6 year battle with brain cancer, and I have no time to play about with them really. The stuff he has has never had bees in just weathered from being outside from trying to tease them in by whatever they try to do.

 

[Woolless]

They are my kid brothers.
I need to find a new home for his stuff as he passed away last Thursday morning after a 6 year battle with brain cancer, and I have no time to play about with them really. The stuff he has has never had bees in just weathered from being outside from trying to tease them in by whatever they try to do.

Very sorry to hear that. Must have been very tough on all of you.

 

[Henarar]

We are near wincanton and it's not fudgeing dry here

its all relative though

 

[Treg]

They are my kid brothers.
I need to find a new home for his stuff as he passed away last Thursday morning after a 6 year battle with brain cancer, and I have no time to play about with them really. The stuff he has has never had bees in just weathered from being outside from trying to tease them in by whatever they try to do.

That's very sad , my thoughts are with you and your family.

 

[Woolless]

Anyone read this one? Saw him talk on YouTube and was very impressed, so decided to splash out on the book. Very interesting, particularly on cattle breeding, along with a strong focus on sustainable profit/ha. One point he makes is about non-selective grazing. Some plants are grazed right down no matter how much general residual is left, so hard non-selective grazing is required. An interesting point, I though. Be good to hear other opinions.

 

[awkward]

They are my kid brothers.
I need to find a new home for his stuff as he passed away last Thursday morning after a 6 year battle with brain cancer, and I have no time to play about with them really. The stuff he has has never had bees in just weathered from being outside from trying to tease them in by whatever they try to do.

Sorry for your loss,

 

[Gulli]

its all relative though

Yeh it's reasonably dry compared to the sea

 

[Fenwick]

They are my kid brothers.
I need to find a new home for his stuff as he passed away last Thursday morning after a 6 year battle with brain cancer, and I have no time to play about with them really. The stuff he has has never had bees in just weathered from being outside from trying to tease them in by whatever they try to do.

sorry to hear that mate.

 

[Fenwick]

View attachment 918032

Anyone read this one? Saw him talk on YouTube and was very impressed, so decided to splash out on the book. Very interesting, particularly on cattle breeding, along with a strong focus on sustainable profit/ha. One point he makes is about non-selective grazing. Some plants are grazed right down no matter how much general residual is left, so hard non-selective grazing is required. An interesting point, I though. Be good to hear other opinions.

funny that you should mention non sélective grazing. i've been watching quite a bit of Jim Elizondo on YouTube (when i was supposed to bé doing other office stuff).

you think that you have started to get to groups with thé whole things, and thén thèse chaps show up and turn thé whole things in it's head!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

They are my kid brothers.
I need to find a new home for his stuff as he passed away last Thursday morning after a 6 year battle with brain cancer, and I have no time to play about with them really. The stuff he has has never had bees in just weathered from being outside from trying to tease them in by whatever they try to do.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[JohnGalway]

View attachment 918032

Anyone read this one? Saw him talk on YouTube and was very impressed, so decided to splash out on the book. Very interesting, particularly on cattle breeding, along with a strong focus on sustainable profit/ha. One point he makes is about non-selective grazing. Some plants are grazed right down no matter how much general residual is left, so hard non-selective grazing is required. An interesting point, I though. Be good to hear other opinions.

That's an epic book, I much prefer the breeding section to the other sections but that's by no means saying they are bad. He's also been a guest on Working Cows podcast.

If you want more on phenotype and epigenetics check out the latest Working Cows podcast (I feel I should be getting commission) with Steve Campbell, I've listened to it about 17 times now.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

non-selective grazing. Some plants are grazed right down no matter how much general residual is left, so hard non-selective grazing is required.

That's generally what we do, we do a "conservation graze" in late spring/summer to try leave behind a bit of cover and lay it flat, but graze it off at other times of the season

Really depends on what your main concerns are-.

-do you want a change in your sward?
-do you want to keep mostly old plants, or do you want to take them out?
-do you want to feed your soil more litter or more sugar?
-how well will it absorb moisture/capture dew/fog?
-is water limiting (or likely to be) before the plants are recovered?
-is effective solar area more limiting?
-how many tillers do you want to allow to reproduce
-wildlife?
-fire risk?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

They are my kid brothers.
I need to find a new home for his stuff as he passed away last Thursday morning after a 6 year battle with brain cancer, and I have no time to play about with them really. The stuff he has has never had bees in just weathered from being outside from trying to tease them in by whatever they try to do.

Really sorry to read that Karl.
Knowing that it will happen "one day" still doesn't make it any easier for you guys. Thinking of you

 

[ShooTa]

very sad news - my condolances karliboy


re the tight graze down - ive been also thinking about what Jamie Elizondo said about eating it to the floor but giving the longer rest period - Very difficult to do with sheep as they are selective graziers.. however i think thats one of the few reasons sheep farmers who are doing the more conventional 3 day moves 1500 out kiwi style are getting good luck with it is becaause of this.. the grass sward is either still very short or is a newer lay.

 

[Rob Garrett]

They are my kid brothers.
I need to find a new home for his stuff as he passed away last Thursday morning after a 6 year battle with brain cancer, and I have no time to play about with them really. The stuff he has has never had bees in just weathered from being outside from trying to tease them in by whatever they try to do.

Sorry to hear that, puts a lot of things into perspective.

Always a good trade for s/h beekeeping kit in the spring; local BBKA, eBay, etc

 

[som farmer]

how much research has been done, into what grasses/plants cows actually like to eat ? Research has pinpointed, down to the nth degree, what grasses will produce, in a trial plot. All of us, have fields that our stock, love to graze, other fields they don't. We are told, ph should be around 6, higher, better, but we have 2 steep banks, that are low ph, one is 4.5,the other 5, neither more than 2 acres, and we do lime them occasionally, if we are liming other fields. The dairy, will graze those two patches, right down to the roots, every time they are grazed. They are reseeded, with the same mix, as rest of field. So, the only difference, is ph. We have other fields, cows dislike, for no apparent reason, high sugar grasses, here, don't get appreciated, high yielders, hated them, to the extent, after grazing all the hedges, and banks, would stand in the gate, and bawl, now with grazers, they are ok, if dry, not if wet. Both these points, are direct opposites, of what we are told, are the 'best' grasses to feed. We do have some 'rented' land, we do nothing more, than cut it, x1 or 2 times/yr, as said before, weeds in one, are lessening, every year, and grass increasing, the point, is that the cows, go nuts, for the hay/silage off those fields, both neglected pp. Some more, young stock do really well, on them.
As i ungraciously age, i get increasingly skeptical, about all these new varieties, that will 'out perform', all the old crap, perhaps we should be avoiding them, as they do require massive imputs, of fert/sprays, and perhaps, work ought to be included.

 

[Henarar]

how much research has been done, into what grasses/plants cows actually like to eat ? Research has pinpointed, down to the nth degree, what grasses will produce, in a trial plot. All of us, have fields that our stock, love to graze, other fields they don't. We are told, ph should be around 6, higher, better, but we have 2 steep banks, that are low ph, one is 4.5,the other 5, neither more than 2 acres, and we do lime them occasionally, if we are liming other fields. The dairy, will graze those two patches, right down to the roots, every time they are grazed. They are reseeded, with the same mix, as rest of field. So, the only difference, is ph. We have other fields, cows dislike, for no apparent reason, high sugar grasses, here, don't get appreciated, high yielders, hated them, to the extent, after grazing all the hedges, and banks, would stand in the gate, and bawl, now with grazers, they are ok, if dry, not if wet. Both these points, are direct opposites, of what we are told, are the 'best' grasses to feed. We do have some 'rented' land, we do nothing more, than cut it, x1 or 2 times/yr, as said before, weeds in one, are lessening, every year, and grass increasing, the point, is that the cows, go nuts, for the hay/silage off those fields, both neglected pp. Some more, young stock do really well, on them.
As i ungraciously age, i get increasingly skeptical, about all these new varieties, that will 'out perform', all the old crap, perhaps we should be avoiding them, as they do require massive imputs, of fert/sprays, and perhaps, work ought to be included.

perhaps I am not so stupid not reseeding.
you should work out how many cows profit it takes to pay for your reseeding, that's the number of cows you wouldn't have to keep if you didn't bother reseeding so it wouldn't matter if it didn't grow so much,
the trouble is you get on a tread mill get rid of the old grass and it takes a long time to come back, on the odd occasion we reseed because a field needs levelling up I don't spray off the old grass and even if I plough a certain amount will survive and after a few years become dominant again

 

[som farmer]

perhaps I am not so stupid not reseeding.
you should work out how many cows profit it takes to pay for your reseeding, that's the number of cows you wouldn't have to keep if you didn't bother reseeding so it wouldn't matter if it didn't grow so much,
the trouble is you get on a tread mill get rid of the old grass and it takes a long time to come back, on the odd occasion we reseed because a field needs levelling up I don't spray off the old grass and even if I plough a certain amount will survive and after a few years become dominant again

the first grass to re-establish, is AMG, which doesn't produce milk, the meadow fesques, timothy, cocksfoot etc, take longer, which, as dairy farmers, cannot afford, those 2/3 yrs +, to get back to a useful pp. We are reseeding with c/foot, fesques etc, plus some of the 'super drought resistant' grasses/ festololiums, and putting in plantains, vetches and chicory, and lots of clover. Having accepted we have a moisture problem, we are experimenting, with different combinations. Bulk silage, we are happy with, the double cropping, hrye/maize, that gives a safer gamble, than conventional methods, it's big advantage, is leaving more grass, for grazing, what type, of grass/grazing, it will end up as, we will have to await the end of next years grazing system, before we will know.