"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
somewhere along the line, we seem to have lost, the monetary house keeping, credit is so readily available, and designed to keep you in the 'trap', Tractor finance, nearly finished, just before it needs changing, buy your stock, spread the cost over 3 yrs, it's all about making profit, for the finance people ! If everything was bought, and paid for, farming could be a serious profitable business.
We have all fallen to the sweet words of banks, consultants etc, even the guv, encourages us to spend, offering 40% grants, for this, or that technology, all that does, is make you find the other 60%, or, if you are cynical like me, it's a 40% handout to the tech companies, with a ready primed, customer base. It's farmers built in desire, to improve, increase, do better, it's that desire, that banks, firms etc, log into, and push.
We are seriously trying to reduce our debts, it's a very enlightening action to look at. Kit, bought on a subsidised % rate, horrifying, if you look at value, of the kit, used, unless you are replacing with new. The worst, definitely the kneenan, good nick, tidy, £1,000, or £7,500 or more, if you trade in for another, ours is bought and paid for, so it will stay, we worked out the hours/cost, of our telescopic, 350 hrs in the last 12 months, depreciating, at slightly more than the finance ! Open mkt value, £13/14,000, not 5 yrs old, luckily, we got double that, not good, but we needed 4 new tyres, and some serious internal problems, like £8,000 plus the tyres, if we did it, machine not worth anymore. We have bought a 2nd, older 2nd hand loader tractor, they hold their value. The best tractors, we have ever used, on our hills and banks, were the 6 cylinder JD's, the 3050/3350's, might not be the most comfortable, but being long, definitely the best.
The brave new world, post brexit, we have no real idea, of what it will be, nor, for that matter, post covid, both are going to really change, how we will live/trade, next year. Change, is a good time, to look at your business, in reality, most of us, have been running faster, each year, to stay in the same place, producing more product, for the same price, to keep paying for those 'bits', we have been told we need. The guvs spin off, by encouraging us to produce more, it keeps food costs down, an essential need, of any guv
Being confined indoors, not by choice, but injury, i am a very avid TFF fan, not only does it help keep me sane, but it is full of ideas, actions, suggestions etc most of which, are very useful. You can ask questions, and get honest answers, can even post some very contentious points, and get either ridiculed (often) or get a suprise. Farmers have got to start working together, a very hard aim to achieve, especially as the locusts, living off our backs, do everything they can, to discourage that. But, working together, is the best way, to survive the next few years, until the UK finds it's place, in the worlds pecking order. Post to long, sorry.
 
young lad, starting off, was being quoted stupid, for straw, our supplier, doesn't have much spare, so, i asked him, if he could ring said lad. Said lad, rung us today, thanking us for taking £1500/2000 off his bedding costs. This was a reply to John Galway's post !

Something I'm changing is the boundary fencing, starting this year, it's a massive job so will do bit by bit. But, no more shitty timber. Either concrete or steel from now on. It'll reduce labour cost and material cost in the future. One of my pet hates is repetitive jobs, more so when they have a bill attached.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Something I'm changing is the boundary fencing, starting this year, it's a massive job so will do bit by bit. But, no more shitty timber. Either concrete or steel from now on. It'll reduce labour cost and material cost in the future. One of my pet hates is repetitive jobs, more so when they have a bill attached.
good fences, make good cattle, good cattle make good neighbours.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
somewhere along the line, we seem to have lost, the monetary house keeping, credit is so readily available, and designed to keep you in the 'trap', Tractor finance, nearly finished, just before it needs changing, buy your stock, spread the cost over 3 yrs, it's all about making profit, for the finance people ! If everything was bought, and paid for, farming could be a serious profitable business.
We have all fallen to the sweet words of banks, consultants etc, even the guv, encourages us to spend, offering 40% grants, for this, or that technology, all that does, is make you find the other 60%, or, if you are cynical like me, it's a 40% handout to the tech companies, with a ready primed, customer base. It's farmers built in desire, to improve, increase, do better, it's that desire, that banks, firms etc, log into, and push.
We are seriously trying to reduce our debts, it's a very enlightening action to look at. Kit, bought on a subsidised % rate, horrifying, if you look at value, of the kit, used, unless you are replacing with new. The worst, definitely the kneenan, good nick, tidy, £1,000, or £7,500 or more, if you trade in for another, ours is bought and paid for, so it will stay, we worked out the hours/cost, of our telescopic, 350 hrs in the last 12 months, depreciating, at slightly more than the finance ! Open mkt value, £13/14,000, not 5 yrs old, luckily, we got double that, not good, but we needed 4 new tyres, and some serious internal problems, like £8,000 plus the tyres, if we did it, machine not worth anymore. We have bought a 2nd, older 2nd hand loader tractor, they hold their value. The best tractors, we have ever used, on our hills and banks, were the 6 cylinder JD's, the 3050/3350's, might not be the most comfortable, but being long, definitely the best.
The brave new world, post brexit, we have no real idea, of what it will be, nor, for that matter, post covid, both are going to really change, how we will live/trade, next year. Change, is a good time, to look at your business, in reality, most of us, have been running faster, each year, to stay in the same place, producing more product, for the same price, to keep paying for those 'bits', we have been told we need. The guvs spin off, by encouraging us to produce more, it keeps food costs down, an essential need, of any guv
Being confined indoors, not by choice, but injury, i am a very avid TFF fan, not only does it help keep me sane, but it is full of ideas, actions, suggestions etc most of which, are very useful. You can ask questions, and get honest answers, can even post some very contentious points, and get either ridiculed (often) or get a suprise. Farmers have got to start working together, a very hard aim to achieve, especially as the locusts, living off our backs, do everything they can, to discourage that. But, working together, is the best way, to survive the next few years, until the UK finds it's place, in the worlds pecking order. Post to long, sorry.
But the government says we must "increase agricultural productivity"don't you know! I'd rather increase agricultural profitability thanks, often a VERY different thing.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
But the government says we must "increase agricultural productivity"don't you know! I'd rather increase agricultural profitability thanks, often a VERY different thing.
until farmers learn to co-operate, rather than compete, with each other, the sooner profits will rise. However, farmers do not stand together, so that's a dream, someone will always sneak a few stock, into a market, if they were to be 'boycotted', on the principle, 'won't be many there, price will be up', use mkt, as an example, we sell most through the ring. The reality, is we have all been programmed to produce more, and better product, which we love to do. The way to better prices, is to produce less, and tell all those consultants, nutritionists, salesmen etc, where to go, they rely, on us, to earn their living, and to earn that living, they preach more production, with slightly lower costs, because we can 'spread' the cost, over more cows/sheep/acres etc.
 
Want to summer graze some upland bog but have no access. Made attached path for cattle from spuce logs, mesh with rushes on top, will it work though? About 15 degree slope, it's designated conservation area so anything proper is illegal
 

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onesiedale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Derbyshire
Road comes to a dead end and this pinch point is very soft with cattle afraid to cross
Presumably they are not dairy cows. So surely just allowing them to find their own way over the pinch point will save a whole lot of hassle.
Temporary fencing will be a better investment to guide the cattle over the ground as part of a planned grazing/improvement. I guess water is the big consideration.
Try these guys in Ireland ( I'll bet they've seen plenty of cattle grazing bogs!)

 
Presumably they are not dairy cows. So surely just allowing them to find their own way over the pinch point will save a whole lot of hassle.
Temporary fencing will be a better investment to guide the cattle over the ground as part of a planned grazing/improvement. I guess water is the big consideration.
Try these guys in Ireland ( I'll bet they've seen plenty of cattle grazing bogs!)

Pinch point is unbelievably soft for around 30ft semi circle at end of roadway. Yep water massive consideration here. I have water in place but nowhere out on bog suitable for drinking point even if moved regularly. Also it would be a great step forward to be able to bring animal back to yard if needed. I do move them regularly with temp fence & cows do well in summer out on it as it's not swampy at all just deep peat
 
Maybe that's why the roadway ended where it did. Maybe a bridge is what's needed? Or different access route altogether.
You mentioned that the cattle are afraid to cross. Their animal instinct maybe telling you something?
Yep hoping my logs and mesh will act as bridge, ground is a lot better after that. Road ends where it does because bog started to get too deep to dig.
 

GC74

Member
until farmers learn to co-operate, rather than compete, with each other, the sooner profits will rise. However, farmers do not stand together, so that's a dream, someone will always sneak a few stock, into a market, if they were to be 'boycotted', on the principle, 'won't be many there, price will be up', use mkt, as an example, we sell most through the ring. The reality, is we have all been programmed to produce more, and better product, which we love to do. The way to better prices, is to produce less, and tell all those consultants, nutritionists, salesmen etc, where to go, they rely, on us, to earn their living, and to earn that living, they preach more production, with slightly lower costs, because we can 'spread' the cost, over more cows/sheep/acres etc.
Couldn’t agree more everyone wants their large slice of our pie. Trailed a product last year on a barley crop. The trail block done 1/2 ton more the the control. My agronomist rung the rep to tell him with me in the background and the rep said that’s good we’ll be able to price that at about $100/ha (barley $400ton here) then. The 2010 spring storms was another good example, the storm had barely finished and the meat companies were saying the market had changed and we could go for heavier lambs only lasted the one season tho🤔
 

awkward

Member
Location
kerry ireland
Pinch point is unbelievably soft for around 30ft semi circle at end of roadway. Yep water massive consideration here. I have water in place but nowhere out on bog suitable for drinking point even if moved regularly. Also it would be a great step forward to be able to bring animal back to yard if needed. I do move them regularly with temp fence & cows do well in summer out on it as it's not swampy at all just deep peat
Whats wrong with a few bog mats, remove them when taking stock off
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Want to summer graze some upland bog but have no access. Made attached path for cattle from spuce logs, mesh with rushes on top, will it work though? About 15 degree slope, it's designated conservation area so anything proper is illegal
I was going to suggest some of that plasticy-rubber "netting" style mesh that they use in playgrounds etc, but it sounds like you have it sorted (y)
 

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