"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Lost of questions to answer, I’ve got one more. Is there double the benefit from moving from 200,000 to 400,000kg? Is it a straight line or more to it than that? Thanks, good to see thinks going well.
4x the benefit of doubling stock density.
You've cut the graze time in half is the obvious one, but you also halve the "knockdown time" which means the residue is 'saved at the start" rather than saved by you moving them on?
The other benefit is that it doubles your flexibility and halves your mistakes/f**kups, eg if you are delayed you only clean up ¼ac of solarpanels instead of ½ an acre. If it rains you make little messes instead of big ones (again that time factor can mean you eliminate the messes totally

I think by halving the stressors and doubling the benefits it is a 2÷½=4 equation. With compounding and cascading effects it maybe better than 4x
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
20201218_195404.jpg

Maybe this picture shows what I mean by "saved for a start", there is selective and non-selective grazing but there isn't non-selective herd impact

if you only use time to protect your plants "leaving it behind" then they only leave crap which then dominates

but if you use sufficent density + time then they trample it so quickly and so hard that a lot of "good" plants are only lightly pruned.

I like to treat my clovers and thistles as fairly as possible, if you hate one but hammer the other what will happen?
 

DanM

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Country
@Kiwi Pete im wondering on your fences; from previous posts I understood you were removing the permanent fences and switching solely to electric, however the recent (excellent illustrative) photos of grazing impact, show several permanent ones? Is it still work on going, or have you retained some to reduce time moving electric?
An area we have started to question is the labour input on constant fence moving.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
@Kiwi Pete im wondering on your fences; from previous posts I understood you were removing the permanent fences and switching solely to electric, however the recent (excellent illustrative) photos of grazing impact, show several permanent ones? Is it still work on going, or have you retained some to reduce time moving electric?
An area we have started to question is the labour input on constant fence moving.
We're leaving most of them up until we have "an empty nest" and my job isn't quite so frantic. Also the electric fence circuit is handy!

I'm working 7-7 6 days a week, and even a fence in a dumb place is one I don't have to erect

really looking forward to destocking in 6-8 weeks and turning off the energiser, and getting my sleeves rolled up! Been a while in the planning.

edit
You are so right about the fence-moving, by the time you get "here" you just want it to stop!
I'll probably start dismantling some of the north-south fences in the new year as we shouldn't be back around.
Then I can drive the "corner posts" and end posts, get the pipe laid out and wires up in time for the next installment of animals.
 
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Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
Will do - weekend coming up (y) I'll also say "why" it is what it is.

Good spotting, yes and yes! The top part of the paddock (1.8ha) was grazed again in November but we left that drier area for an extra month to thicken up a little and go a bit stemmier. That little alley is where the boundary fence is stuffed, so I fenced a strip off and planted flax in it, you can see the fertility transfer away from that side as weather direction (SW) means stock tend to drift from right to left (you're looking due south in that photo) and a bit of shelter there is good to have.
Thanks Pete. Its interesting to hear your answers. They make sense.
 

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
We're leaving most of them up until we have "an empty nest" and my job isn't quite so frantic. Also the electric fence circuit is handy!

I'm working 7-7 6 days a week, and even a fence in a dumb place is one I don't have to erect

really looking forward to destocking in 6-8 weeks and turning off the energiser, and getting my sleeves rolled up! Been a while in the planning.

edit
You are so right about the fence-moving, by the time you get "here" you just want it to stop!
I'll probably start dismantling some of the north-south fences in the new year as we shouldn't be back around.
Then I can drive the "corner posts" and end posts, get the pipe laid out and wires up in time for the next installment of animals.
I must say that is one advantage to living where it is impossible to graze in the winter ( except bale grazing). In November when I am anyway sick of the whole business, I put away all reels and pickets and keep the animals near the water, shelter, hay ( in that order). By April I can hardly wait to get out there but usually have to wait till May. Its very pleasant to have that rest period.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
D
Assuming ewes weigh 75 kg. each. 200,000 kg = 2667 ewes per ha./10,000 sq. metres.
This gives each ewe 3.75 square metres each. Not a lot of space.

If my calculations are correct, how long do you leave them there?
Depends how much abundance you have - the mob is ready to move as soon as two have lifted their heads out of the grass. They're still ready next week, what you do is really up to what you plan to do next!
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I must say that is one advantage to living where it is impossible to graze in the winter ( except bale grazing). In November when I am anyway sick of the whole business, I put away all reels and pickets and keep the animals near the water, shelter, hay ( in that order). By April I can hardly wait to get out there but usually have to wait till May. Its very pleasant to have that rest period.
I'm addicted to working in my business, need to do some work ON my business or I'll never bother to address that!
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Depends how much abundance you have - the mob is ready to move as soon as two have lifted their heads out of the grass. They're still ready next week, what you do is really up to what you plan to do next!
That is probably a pretty crap reply, but an example is if you had a 12/TDM kale crop you could put 50 cows on 8m² a day and they wouldn't starve.

That's where "thinking big" is useful, instead of thinking in kgDM terms think in tonnes!
If you feed 3 tonnes of DM then your 3.75m² is 1.125kg per head, so you need big covers before the high density is feasible.
Think, silage paddock grass so that there is abundant good feed to graze and abunadant litter left behind.
Not these bowling green type covers, where you could see a beer can at 50 paces.
 

Rob Garrett

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Derbyshire UK
D

Depends how much abundance you have - the mob is ready to move as soon as two have lifted their heads out of the grass. They're still ready next week, what you do is really up to what you plan to do next!
Would it be fair to say sheep are a slightly different tool than cattle, & the kg LW stock/ha is maybe a bit of a simplistic measure for sheep? Forget the calculator, chuck the ewes on & adjust your fencing untill you get the desired effect (on soil, grass & sheep)?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Would it be fair to say sheep are a slightly different tool than cattle, & the kg LW stock/ha is maybe a bit of a simplistic measure for sheep? Forget the calculator, chuck the ewes on & adjust your fencing untill you get the desired effect (on soil, grass & sheep)?
Oh, for sure.
The options are endless, personally I would do the opposite based on hindsight - keep the space the same but adjust the time in a paddock.

And get rid of the ewes before you get rid of the calculator 🤣 I constantly tweak times but try to settle on pretty much the same sized paddock.... if you keep the density within a range you and the stock are happy with (because habits are habits for a reason) then you get predictable grazing results.
You get a constant plane of nutrition because the pressure on what makes up the pasture is pretty constant

You "pretty much get to know" a lot faster than when you are always mixing paddock sizes up, density is powerful and the higher you have it the more precise the shift time becomes.
But that's the beauty of HM because you do what works for you
 

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