"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Woolless]

Even has Herefords in it

 

[JohnGalway]

I'm more of a Once Upon A Time in the West kinda Western fan, they don't make actors like they used to!

 

[Woolless]

I'm more of a Once Upon A Time in the West kinda Western fan, they don't make actors like they used to!

Another terrific film. The buffalo stampede through the railroad camp is a great bit of footage. It's incredible really, the dangers and hardships those settlers endured as they moved west.

 

[bendigeidfran]

Not if you value time that's the main reason for laziness, shifting mobs "takes time"

Time is one of the most precious gifts, spend it well .
Remember going to a farm walk to see a tecnograzing set up, and the headline on the flyer was "are you a busy idiot"
I'm not going to say what my answer to that question was

 

[som farmer]

I think most of us are guilty of overcomplicating our lives. When the time comes that we have to slow down, hat's the time we realise it, and then it's to late.
We are in an industry where hard work is the norm, fair enough, but then we decide to 'expand' or 'increase' production, so we put up another shed, buy more stock, or machinery, then we have to work harder to pay for it. We ceased milking due to me having an accident, son wanted to go back in, sums were done, decisions made, the best sum that added up, was a simple parlour, 20/30 cows, buyer no problem, bit of off farm work, rear beef etc, naturally we didn't do that ! Peaked at 270, but have dropped back to 150/60, but money was taken up, the work had to be done, it's a 'what you do' scenario. The penny dropped to late !

 

[farmgineer]

Do you harrow your winter fields? I have had my sheep plus 4 horses on one large field for the winter. Sheep have the run of the whole lot. Horses are behind 1 strand of poly wire to stop them getting on the wettest bits. It's now pretty bare but the grass is really starting to come through. I have been feeding adlib haylage in wheeled feeders that I have moved regularly so poaching is bad on the whole but there are a few areas that are quite rutted (thanks horses). The animals will come off the field at the end of March ish and then it will be rested for as long as it needs. Last year I chain harrowed all of my fields in spring. Towards the end of the summer I sold some ewes and I can still see slight marks in the ground where the 4x4 and trailer drove across the field, even though I don't recall the ground being soft when they came. I am now wondering if I should not harrow at all, to avoid compaction (it would be a chain harrow behind my 4x4). I am thinking of just creating cells and moving the sheep around the rutted areas, when the weather is right, just to pat everything down level again. What do you think? It's old permanent pasture. We don't really need this field in the summer but will probably rotate animals on and off it to stop the grass getting too long and then it will be winter grazing again from around the start of November. Thanks all.

I asked a similar question once and didn't get anywhere with it. It's basically going to be up to you and the condition of the field you've got.

The practitioners of this thread (I am not one yet, hopefully this year) wouldn't have a field in that condition due to the grazing management and important rest period that they put in place. So perhaps the answer can not be given by this group?

In my experience of out wintering stock, the field ends up a mess of hoof prints and bare soil. If you get the conditions just right then grassland harrows can be used to smooth back down the tops into the bottoms so the ground becomes easy to walk on. For this reason I would do it on rough ground to prevent foot issues for the animals when the ground dries up.

It takes alot of time and fuel to do this work, added costs that are not necessary. From my point of view of following these guys over the last 12 months or so, I believe that the purpose of the thread is to reduce costs, reduce labour and increase profit by taking into account the whole lifecycle of what happens on the land and aligning with nature to ensure that profitability is not affected by fighting against it.

Apologies if this comes across as a lecture, it's not supposed to. I am trying to help.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I'm more of a Once Upon A Time in the West kinda Western fan, they don't make actors like they used to!

No, i think you are right, they don't, I was only thinking that recently .

Actually I prefer 'Once upon a time in America' , must be more of a townie ....or something....

 

[Fenwick]

I asked a similar question once and didn't get anywhere with it. It's basically going to be up to you and the condition of the field you've got.

The practitioners of this thread (I am not one yet, hopefully this year) wouldn't have a field in that condition due to the grazing management and important rest period that they put in place. So perhaps the answer can not be given by this group?

In my experience of out wintering stock, the field ends up a mess of hoof prints and bare soil. If you get the conditions just right then grassland harrows can be used to smooth back down the tops into the bottoms so the ground becomes easy to walk on. For this reason I would do it on rough ground to prevent foot issues for the animals when the ground dries up.

It takes alot of time and fuel to do this work, added costs that are not necessary. From my point of view of following these guys over the last 12 months or so, I believe that the purpose of the thread is to reduce costs, reduce labour and increase profit by taking into account the whole lifecycle of what happens on the land and aligning with nature to ensure that profitability is not affected by fighting against it.

Apologies if this comes across as a lecture, it's not supposed to. I am trying to help.

Sorry @Sprig

We've outwintered all our stock again.
This time with some pretty intensive Bale grazing, kept thèm Moving every 24hrs or so.

Really has given thé field a Bashing.
Have planned an a longish rest period.

I have been taking plenty of photos, and I shall report back with thé results.

Outwintering thé animals in 'acceptable conditions' is a Big objective here. - (we Calvé all year).

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Do you harrow your winter fields? I have had my sheep plus 4 horses on one large field for the winter. Sheep have the run of the whole lot. Horses are behind 1 strand of poly wire to stop them getting on the wettest bits. It's now pretty bare but the grass is really starting to come through. I have been feeding adlib haylage in wheeled feeders that I have moved regularly so poaching is bad on the whole but there are a few areas that are quite rutted (thanks horses). The animals will come off the field at the end of March ish and then it will be rested for as long as it needs. Last year I chain harrowed all of my fields in spring. Towards the end of the summer I sold some ewes and I can still see slight marks in the ground where the 4x4 and trailer drove across the field, even though I don't recall the ground being soft when they came. I am now wondering if I should not harrow at all, to avoid compaction (it would be a chain harrow behind my 4x4). I am thinking of just creating cells and moving the sheep around the rutted areas, when the weather is right, just to pat everything down level again. What do you think? It's old permanent pasture. We don't really need this field in the summer but will probably rotate animals on and off it to stop the grass getting too long and then it will be winter grazing again from around the start of November. Thanks all.

If you think the benefits outweigh the costs, then go for it. Give the sheep a go though, quite surprising what they can paddle back down with their feet and chew out of permanent pasture.
Depends how thatchy it is, even around the local area there are good examples of all sorts of "PP" ranging from candidates for a harrow, to bits you wouldn't even walk over let alone drive a 4x4

 

[som farmer]

and to think the norm was to chain harrow, and roll all cutting fields, and at least harrow grazing. But one of the main reasons in cutting grounds, was to 'spread' mole heaps, and the advice gradually changed to not roll, why ? well that must have co-incided, with the moles demise, so in this case, regen methods, which encourage worms etc, might actually be classed as 'bad' ! When we used to c/harrow pp, suprising how much 'thatch' we pulled out, in newer leys, very little came out, the major difference being the density of plants, and again that harrowing has become less important. It's interesting to think back, and how practices have changed in time, and why.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

and to think the norm was to chain harrow, and roll all cutting fields, and at least harrow grazing. But one of the main reasons in cutting grounds, was to 'spread' mole heaps, and the advice gradually changed to not roll, why ? well that must have co-incided, with the moles demise, so in this case, regen methods, which encourage worms etc, might actually be classed as 'bad' ! When we used to c/harrow pp, suprising how much 'thatch' we pulled out, in newer leys, very little came out, the major difference being the density of plants, and again that harrowing has become less important. It's interesting to think back, and how practices have changed in time, and why.

What does pulling out "the thatch" actually achieve in reality though? Isn't it removing ground cover?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I asked a similar question once and didn't get anywhere with it. It's basically going to be up to you and the condition of the field you've got.

The practitioners of this thread (I am not one yet, hopefully this year) wouldn't have a field in that condition due to the grazing management and important rest period that they put in place. So perhaps the answer can not be given by this group?

In my experience of out wintering stock, the field ends up a mess of hoof prints and bare soil. If you get the conditions just right then grassland harrows can be used to smooth back down the tops into the bottoms so the ground becomes easy to walk on. For this reason I would do it on rough ground to prevent foot issues for the animals when the ground dries up.

It takes alot of time and fuel to do this work, added costs that are not necessary. From my point of view of following these guys over the last 12 months or so, I believe that the purpose of the thread is to reduce costs, reduce labour and increase profit by taking into account the whole lifecycle of what happens on the land and aligning with nature to ensure that profitability is not affected by fighting against it.

Apologies if this comes across as a lecture, it's not supposed to. I am trying to help.

No offence taken (in this thread, at least).

It's more fully summed up in one of Pete's earlier comments that he's always questioning why he should do something rather than why he shouldn't.

Ask yourself why you need to do something then again ask "why" each time you answer until you fully understand your reasons. Then think about your answers to see if they stand up to reason.

So much of what we routinely do is just that, a routine. There's nothing regenerative about a routine!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Maybe it depends on the thatch, bent or kikuyu can be problematic and some scarification could help let the H²O in

will also let it out

removal of "habitat" is maybe worth thinking about, bugs lives matter
..if you value your critters then why do their jobs, as well as wreck where they live?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Maybe it depends on the thatch, bent or kikuyu can be problematic and some scarification could help let the H²O in

will also let it out

removal of "habitat" is maybe worth thinking about, bugs lives matter
..if you value your critters then why do their jobs, as well as wreck where they live?

And spend diesel to do it...

Maybe the thatch is more likely to rot in contact with the ground, releasing nutrients back into the soil, whereas once you've pulled it out on top its blocking sunlight to the solar panels below and can only break down by oxidising?

 

[som farmer]

What does pulling out "the thatch"actually achieve in reality though? Isn't it removing ground cover?

debated what to say about that, so said nothing ! One side of me, good to aerate the ground, the other worm food, but it's an interesting point, pp has thatch, new leys not really, the more important point, is why the difference, which is basically plant density. We have all cut old grass, and been suprised by the size of the swathe, probably debated cutting it, because there didn't look much, the difference between 'new and old', can be easily seen by looking at the stubble after mowing, one you can see bare soil, the other you cant. You can scalp pp, and it grows back, you dare not with leys. This in turn, produces another question, are the quoted yield improvements of new leys, from trial plots, actually replicated under field conditions, or does the lower plant density, compared to the much higher of pp, cancel each other out.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

No offence taken (in this thread, at least).

It's more fully summed up in one of Pete's earlier comments that he's always questioning why he should do something rather than why he shouldn't.

Ask yourself why you need to do something then again ask "why" each time you answer until you fully understand your reasons. Then think about your answers to see if they stand up to reason.

So much of what we routinely do is just that, a routine. There's nothing regenerative about a routine!

That's just because I'm a lazy barsteward

if it looking good made me more money then rest assured it would look good - but it just costs

And spend diesel to do it...

Maybe the thatch is more likely to rot in contact with the ground, releasing nutrients back into the soil, whereas once you've pulled it out on top its blocking sunlight to the solar panels below and can only break down by oxidising?

It can do. Some "stuff" just sits there and does very little - like me

you notice areas that are regularly cut, they almost have a stalled cycle as far as recycling brown grass, I suppose their food is wrapped up and so there are less there

areas that are regularly grazed well just don't have that sluggish decompostion cycle and are green from the ground up, by comparison

 

[Sprig]

Thanks everyone. I think I am going to give it a go with just running the sheep over it this year. It's only our second winter here and we are still experimenting to see what works best for us. Last year the sheep had the run of all the fields over winter. I am much happier with this years plan of a sacrifice field and then they ha5good grass to go on to lamb.

 

[Henarar]

The winter keep sheep do my chainharrowing

 

[Henarar]

The winter keep sheep do my chainharrowing

and I get paid for that

 

[Henarar]

Thanks everyone. I think I am going to give it a go with just running the sheep over it this year. It's only our second winter here and we are still experimenting to see what works best for us. Last year the sheep had the run of all the fields over winter. I am much happier with this years plan of a sacrifice field and then they ha5good grass to go on to lamb.

Depends what you want to do in the spring, if you want an early cut we have found it best to get the sheep run round and gone by the turn of the year and give it a long rest after till cutting, if your going to graze then the sheep don't hurt latter. this is just what we have found on our land