"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Crofter64]

The grass isn’t growing much as it’s cold and it hasn’t rained much . I couldn’t stand the restlessness of the cattle any longer so I let them into a small area each afternoon for a few hours. Yesterday they knocked down a temporary fence, and when I kicked them out they charged back with the two 4 month old bottle calves in front of them. These two hit the permanent page wire fence, topped with electric wire, at a full run.For a split second nothing happened and then they both flew into the air and did a perfect summersault vault over the fence. I was sure they were dead. Not at all ,they got up and started to graze which drove the others crazy and they wanted to jump the now damaged fence.That would definitely have cause some serious leg breakages. I can hardly wait till they are out all the time- so much quieter then. The sheep have the same deal on their own little paddock and are behaving perfectly.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The grass isn’t growing much as it’s cold and it hasn’t rained much . I couldn’t stand the restlessness of the cattle any longer so I let them into a small area each afternoon for a few hours. Yesterday they knocked down a temporary fence, and when I kicked them out they charged back with the two 4 month old bottle calves in front of them. These two hit the permanent page wire fence, topped with electric wire, at a full run.For a split second nothing happened and then they both flew into the air and did a perfect summersault vault over the fence. I was sure they were dead. Not at all ,they got up and started to graze which drove the others crazy and they wanted to jump the now damaged fence.That would definitely have cause some serious leg breakages. I can hardly wait till they are out all the time- so much quieter then. The sheep have the same deal on their own little paddock and are behaving perfectly.

I've always been amazed by "flight mode" in livestock

eg cattle can jump clean over rails, fences, and gates without even getting a leg caught, they can likewise break wooden posts off at ground level etc, even lambs can if they bunch up enough

..amazing what they can and could do, but just don't do! We had a calf (one of the feeder speckle park heifers) poke out yesterday afternoon, but into a grazed cell.
I told her off and she popped back through with her mob, thought "that was easy!" but it showed how easily they can get out, and how powerful that mob instinct gets.

They've only been in with the other calves since Saturday lunchtime but "we belong here" seems to be what they believe
here's to your grass waking up

 

[JohnGalway]

Getting there with the DIY Batt Latch project

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Getting there with the DIY Batt Latch project

Good work, just found your thread now. My phone screen has a chunk missing and makes typing very difficult

 

[JohnGalway]

Good work, just found your thread now. My phone screen has a chunk missing and makes typing very difficult

Had to get a new screen for mine lately, there's no app for not getting a protective cover in time! Got some type of film screen protector that's much better than glass, came out on a printer in the shop.

 

[Sheila Cooke]

They did seem interested. I've put them in touch with @Sheila Cooke to learn more and contact people already doing it.

Roger and Gilly Dixon-Spain at Sailean Farm on Lismore have done exactly this.

This blog might help @Jonny B88

 

[Sheila Cooke]

That's a wee bit satisfying.
Some not so very big mobs in some not so very big paddocks. View attachment 959805

looking good kiwi pete!

 

[Crofter64]

This blog might help @Jonny B88

Is there a blog address?

 

[som farmer]

feeding near mowing grass, not headed, to our milkers, 1.5 litre drop, and bf 3.95, first time we have gone under 4 in 2 years, so junior tells me. So we have to balance food value, into the equation, that puts the longer term rotation, on a bit of a hold, we should have picked up the drop quicker, but they were having 'lovely' grass by night, and this by day.
That gives us 1 answer, pick and mix fields, not quite the idea, so it might be we have to shorten the rotation, this time of year, and extend when growth has slowed down, another point, though the long grass has plantain and chickory in it, the clover is taking a backward step, whereas the 'lovely' has plantain, clover with grass, strong clover growth this time of year, will leave it the 'dominant' plant july/august, not a bad point, just need to get the right balance ! Quite noticeable how the 'dry' grasses are much finer leaf than regular prg. Vetches are not coming back behind the cows, but are quite impressive in with the rye, matching the rye height, in some places waist high now, coming into head as well, 10 days to go yet, another 10ins ?
This is where dairy and other livestock, have separate needs, dairy need that extra bit of protien, in the spring, before the clover gets going, till then, l think we have to look at the nutrient value of the grass, there was definitely too much grass that had gone well over it's best by date, it was a cutting sward really. That's fine, lesson learnt, rotation length in early season, must match grass quality. The ideal, of course, would be a diverse ley, with an equal food value throughout the year.
On another thread, ploughing v other, l passed a comment, we have all been sold the need for regular reseeding, and over the course of time, we have spent vast sums, not only on seed, but the kit to put it in as well, as have the arable boys, to a multi times greater amount, to spend a fortune on new varieties of corn, that need an expensive amount of chemicals, to yield, and what have we actually achieved ? Our prices haven't risen over much, our costs have, most farmers are working extra hours, and l am coming to the awful conclusion, that we have spent those millions, just to save paid labour, nothing more for us, but cheap food for the electorate. Just like milk quota, vast sums went out of the industry, to what purpose ? If we had slowly improved our p/p, or stayed with the more robust varieties of corn, and were not driven to more acres/stock, to spread the cost, and had all that money stowed away, l think we would be in a much better place.

 

[Farmer Roy]

err, I wasn’t part of this project, but I was at this event as a guest speaker & part of a panel of local farmers sharing their “regen” experiences

FARMERS WORKING WITH NATURE IN ‘REHYDRATION PROJECT’ - NBN News

A group of Liverpool Plains farmers have been working together, for nearly a year, to regenerate lan

www.nbnnews.com.au

 

[Sharpy]

feeding near mowing grass, not headed, to our milkers, 1.5 litre drop, and bf 3.95, first time we have gone under 4 in 2 years, so junior tells me. So we have to balance food value, into the equation, that puts the longer term rotation, on a bit of a hold, we should have picked up the drop quicker, but they were having 'lovely' grass by night, and this by day.
That gives us 1 answer, pick and mix fields, not quite the idea, so it might be we have to shorten the rotation, this time of year, and extend when growth has slowed down, another point, though the long grass has plantain and chickory in it, the clover is taking a backward step, whereas the 'lovely' has plantain, clover with grass, strong clover growth this time of year, will leave it the 'dominant' plant july/august, not a bad point, just need to get the right balance ! Quite noticeable how the 'dry' grasses are much finer leaf than regular prg. Vetches are not coming back behind the cows, but are quite impressive in with the rye, matching the rye height, in some places waist high now, coming into head as well, 10 days to go yet, another 10ins ?
This is where dairy and other livestock, have separate needs, dairy need that extra bit of protien, in the spring, before the clover gets going, till then, l think we have to look at the nutrient value of the grass, there was definitely too much grass that had gone well over it's best by date, it was a cutting sward really. That's fine, lesson learnt, rotation length in early season, must match grass quality. The ideal, of course, would be a diverse ley, with an equal food value throughout the year.
On another thread, ploughing v other, l passed a comment, we have all been sold the need for regular reseeding, and over the course of time, we have spent vast sums, not only on seed, but the kit to put it in as well, as have the arable boys, to a multi times greater amount, to spend a fortune on new varieties of corn, that need an expensive amount of chemicals, to yield, and what have we actually achieved ? Our prices haven't risen over much, our costs have, most farmers are working extra hours, and l am coming to the awful conclusion, that we have spent those millions, just to save paid labour, nothing more for us, but cheap food for the electorate. Just like milk quota, vast sums went out of the industry, to what purpose ? If we had slowly improved our p/p, or stayed with the more robust varieties of corn, and were not driven to more acres/stock, to spread the cost, and had all that money stowed away, l think we would be in a much better place.

As far as increasing production by reseeding goes would we not be better in most cases putting the lime and time into the old sward, giving it a bit of a rest then managing it more carefully? We have this thing about reseeding when really it harks back to mixed farming and ploughing up old swards to utilise the built up fertility of years of grass and grazing for cereal crops then putting grass back in to build fertility.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

looking good kiwi pete!

Thanks, I will get some better photos when I get a new phone. It's going better than expected, and I expected a lot

Starting to get into frost season

 

[som farmer]

As far as increasing production by reseeding goes would we not be better in most cases putting the lime and time into the old sward, giving it a bit of a rest then managing it more carefully? We have this thing about reseeding when really it harks back to mixed farming and ploughing up old swards to utilise the built up fertility of years of grass and grazing for cereal crops then putting grass back in to build fertility.

quite agree, the problem is we should have realised that 50 yrs ago, when you look at our farming systems, where we really need the sfp, then look at the eastern european countries, sfp to them must seem like manna from heaven. We have allowed ourselves to be led into a high imput, high output system with a cheap output price, and we are the worse for it.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

feeding near mowing grass, not headed, to our milkers, 1.5 litre drop, and bf 3.95, first time we have gone under 4 in 2 years, so junior tells me. So we have to balance food value, into the equation, that puts the longer term rotation, on a bit of a hold, we should have picked up the drop quicker, but they were having 'lovely' grass by night, and this by day.
That gives us 1 answer, pick and mix fields, not quite the idea, so it might be we have to shorten the rotation, this time of year, and extend when growth has slowed down, another point, though the long grass has plantain and chickory in it, the clover is taking a backward step, whereas the 'lovely' has plantain, clover with grass, strong clover growth this time of year, will leave it the 'dominant' plant july/august, not a bad point, just need to get the right balance ! Quite noticeable how the 'dry' grasses are much finer leaf than regular prg. Vetches are not coming back behind the cows, but are quite impressive in with the rye, matching the rye height, in some places waist high now, coming into head as well, 10 days to go yet, another 10ins ?
This is where dairy and other livestock, have separate needs, dairy need that extra bit of protien, in the spring, before the clover gets going, till then, l think we have to look at the nutrient value of the grass, there was definitely too much grass that had gone well over it's best by date, it was a cutting sward really. That's fine, lesson learnt, rotation length in early season, must match grass quality. The ideal, of course, would be a diverse ley, with an equal food value throughout the year.
On another thread, ploughing v other, l passed a comment, we have all been sold the need for regular reseeding, and over the course of time, we have spent vast sums, not only on seed, but the kit to put it in as well, as have the arable boys, to a multi times greater amount, to spend a fortune on new varieties of corn, that need an expensive amount of chemicals, to yield, and what have we actually achieved ? Our prices haven't risen over much, our costs have, most farmers are working extra hours, and l am coming to the awful conclusion, that we have spent those millions, just to save paid labour, nothing more for us, but cheap food for the electorate. Just like milk quota, vast sums went out of the industry, to what purpose ? If we had slowly improved our p/p, or stayed with the more robust varieties of corn, and were not driven to more acres/stock, to spread the cost, and had all that money stowed away, l think we would be in a much better place.

That's usually about the time I just wish I went to a bar and got my head kicked in. I stay out of the way of most of TFF, including that one.

 

[Henarar]

That's usually about the time I just wish I went to a bar and got my head kicked in. I stay out of the way of most of TFF, including that one.

Back when I was lime spreading we went to a arable and dairy farm got chatting to the farmer and he informed us that he had just bought a combine with twice the capacity and he had taken on next doors combining to justify it. That would have been 30 odd years ago and I still remember thinking to myself "why bother"

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Back when I was lime spreading we went to a arable and dairy farm got chatting to the farmer and he informed us that he had just bought a combine with twice the capacity and he had taken on next doors combining to justify it. That would have been 30 odd years ago and I still remember thinking to myself "why bother"

Every quid spent looks the same. I often wonder "why" as I tootle about the place

maybe because I have the time to think about such things

but by the time you make the grass all grow like stink in the spring and then run around in the tractor doing something with that, then waiting until winter til you get the lambs gone to pay for the fert to go on to cold soil

it's stock farming for machinery people is about what it is. Luckily I get to burn someone elses diesel and wear out someone elses machines because I couldn't be fufu'd with all that money and only getting to keep a bit of it for me

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is how I've been putting these troughs in. Have to dig them in properly on the slopes but this is OK on the majority of the nodes.

we've had a couple of -4 or 5 frosts and everything seems to run by the time the sun is on the pasture, they are getting a once a day shift in the early afternoon

 

[som farmer]

very few on here can remember the time when most of grassland was either long term leys, or pp, unless in a rotation with arable, grass just stayed there, l cant really remember those days, but l ploughed up a lot of fields here that had 'never' been ploughed before, those fields tended to be the furthest away from the farm, took a hay cut, then hfr grazing. There are 2 ways of looking at that, the first, those fields were profitable, on a low imput, low output basis, the second, by cultivating them, did we actually increase the profitability, after removing the actual costs, of doing so. We split the farm, and l no longer farm some of those, but can easily look over the hedge. They have been arable for 26 yrs, and every year, the yield has decreased, in one 17ac field, it is no longer viable to crop it, it's been 'greening' element, and now, when no longer needed for that, just topped. So there, it wasn't any advantage in ploughing them up. On the fields here that l ploughed for the first time, a different story, production has improved, in some cases dramatically, other bits so so, the big difference, is ours has been continually stocked with cattle, the other continuous arable. The question, have our fields been more, or less profitable, by ploughing them up, or could we have 'listened' to the older generation, that shook their heads, and said 'it will never pay', and put the same effort, into improving the pp that was there for 1000 yrs, perhaps. In most cases, l think production could have been fine for the lower cost system we now have, if we had just used better grazing techniques, not the best of admissions to have to make, even worse, l am the older generation, shaking my head ! Very interestingly the archaeologists in their diggings, told us that this was a 'stock' farm, with very little arable, and had been for 3500 yrs, l wouldn't have any idea if that was right or not, but if it was, those very old generations, knew more than todays.

 

[Rob Garrett]

feeding near mowing grass, not headed, to our milkers, 1.5 litre drop, and bf 3.95, first time we have gone under 4 in 2 years, so junior tells me. So we have to balance food value, into the equation, that puts the longer term rotation, on a bit of a hold, we should have picked up the drop quicker, but they were having 'lovely' grass by night, and this by day.
That gives us 1 answer, pick and mix fields, not quite the idea, so it might be we have to shorten the rotation, this time of year, and extend when growth has slowed down, another point, though the long grass has plantain and chickory in it, the clover is taking a backward step, whereas the 'lovely' has plantain, clover with grass, strong clover growth this time of year, will leave it the 'dominant' plant july/august, not a bad point, just need to get the right balance ! Quite noticeable how the 'dry' grasses are much finer leaf than regular prg. Vetches are not coming back behind the cows, but are quite impressive in with the rye, matching the rye height, in some places waist high now, coming into head as well, 10 days to go yet, another 10ins ?
This is where dairy and other livestock, have separate needs, dairy need that extra bit of protien, in the spring, before the clover gets going, till then, l think we have to look at the nutrient value of the grass, there was definitely too much grass that had gone well over it's best by date, it was a cutting sward really. That's fine, lesson learnt, rotation length in early season, must match grass quality. The ideal, of course, would be a diverse ley, with an equal food value throughout the year.
On another thread, ploughing v other, l passed a comment, we have all been sold the need for regular reseeding, and over the course of time, we have spent vast sums, not only on seed, but the kit to put it in as well, as have the arable boys, to a multi times greater amount, to spend a fortune on new varieties of corn, that need an expensive amount of chemicals, to yield, and what have we actually achieved ? Our prices haven't risen over much, our costs have, most farmers are working extra hours, and l am coming to the awful conclusion, that we have spent those millions, just to save paid labour, nothing more for us, but cheap food for the electorate. Just like milk quota, vast sums went out of the industry, to what purpose ? If we had slowly improved our p/p, or stayed with the more robust varieties of corn, and were not driven to more acres/stock, to spread the cost, and had all that money stowed away, l think we would be in a much better place.

Milk & bf drop when grazing long grass. I was having this conversation with organic farmer next door, he had some cows drop dead on one particular field (poss. red clover bloat), I suggested grazing longer cover's, he said no because of milk & bf drop. I didn't have an answer to that, is there one?

 

[Treg]

Milk & bf drop when grazing long grass. I was having this conversation with organic farmer next door, he had some cows drop dead on one particular field (poss. red clover bloat), I suggested grazing longer cover's, he said no because of milk & bf drop. I didn't have an answer to that, is there one?

But his cows would still be alive! Farm profit is not necessarily about what goes out in the tank. Survival rates/ cows back in calves/ input costs etc.