"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

I'm yet to be convinced. I'll keep an open mind, and that double rest period for the piece I showed like that, but currently it looks like it'll need more than a double rest period. Will it make up for a year off, or will it just be covered in docks?

Most graziers in reliable climates have such short summertime recovery periods that doubling it is likely nowhere near enough to get the full benefit of work put in.

if you look at it from a "composting in-situ" angle then you kinda leave it alone til it's done what it needs to do. It's not really dissimilar to bale-grazing and if you do that in winter it takes a fair while to come back, because you made tonnes of the stuff.

Likewise if Ian comes back to it in autumn, he won't use as much density or duration in that pass, because it's effectively "a new pasture" and will respond in a similar way.
It'll probably chuck up the same weeds as it would if you went grass-grass by discing it and throwing vast quantities of seed at it

we call them "rainy day projects" - sort of a two-finger salute to what normal folk do on a rainy day... hence trying to do a bit of that over winter when it comes down from above. We had 84mm this week so that softened it up a little

If you make the areas small enough, then skipping an ac out isn't going to cost much.

 

[Henarar]

I'm yet to be convinced. I'll keep an open mind, and that double rest period for the piece I showed like that, but currently it looks like it'll need more than a double rest period. Will it make up for a year off, or will it just be covered in docks?

Like most of this sort of thing until you do it on your land you won't know cos what will be ok or a good job one place won't be another

 

[exmoor dave]

Hey, @exmoor dave View attachment 968470
the heifer born when you were here, Storm, had her calf today.
I thought a bit of rubbish had blown over, but no, a very small and very zippy zappy heifer calf

Lovely coloured calf Pete

Calved at about 19mths then?


2 fresh calves here this morning, typically one of them had taken off and hidden with the calf, just when I was in a rush to get off the farm on a boat fishing trip

 

[Crofter64]

by hand, although i do now have a bale unroller for the quad

do you unroll daily? how do you deal with rain and mud?
I did a bit of unrolling last autumn. Hay quality was so-so and the cattle mostly used it as bedding. I was worried about unrolling too much at a time thinking its’ palitability would decline even further if it got rained on- in the end I went back to placing the bales every couple of days which has created ‘dead circles’ this year.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Lovely coloured calf Pete

Calved at about 19mths then?


2 fresh calves here this morning, typically one of them had taken off and hidden with the calf, just when I was in a rush to get off the farm on a boat fishing trip

Always the way!

Did you get a few?

 

[Crofter64]

It's really quite beneficial, that "yuck bit on the outside", just don't make anyone eat the stuff

Once we get past the hungup on the grass quality thing, the leaving way too much litter thing, into the longer recovery/total grazing thing... that green algal film on the biocrust is basically exactly what you want to culture from a carbon-farming perspective.

Forgot to take my phone this afternoon but I can see that green sheen appearing about 8-9 days behind the mobs, but the worm castings make it difficult to see unless you're searching for it

Cyanobacteria, biological soil crust formation... all that extra photosynthesis, all that extra protection from raindrops, wind, sun... a bit of mould, a few slimemoulds etc, it's all incredibly worthwhile to keep this "stuff" going back in.

I buy rotten bales from my larger neighbours and shake them out to cover cow tracks, hen holes and other open spaces. Lots of life in those bales, but I never thought of it as innoculation before.

 

[som farmer]

just started a bunch of dry cows, on standing hay, bit green, lets see what happens, at present, some are 'slightly' overweight. Ley grass for fattening cows, is inferior to pp.

 

[exmoor dave]

Always the way!

Did you get a few?

Only small dogfish..... for reference, UK dog fish are are different to the NZ dogfish we caught in Doubtful sound
About the only good thing to say about UK dogfish, is that they are better than catching nothing.... but literally only just

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Ley grass for fattening cows, is inferior to pp.

You clearly missed the info from the seeds industry, saying things like that...

 

[Brad93]

Hi all, been following this thread for a while now but first time posting so go easy! Trying to adapt management to better reflect a more hollistic approach.
I’m currently sheep only on rented ground, small scale (80 lambing ewes this time with 40 shearlings following for next year) around a full time job so balancing time and money. Had an opportunity a while ago to purchase 14ac which is in the process of going through now. Like I say, small scale but starting somewhere and 2 min walk to current rented ground so works really well. It has taken a while to go through so had approximately 18 months of no grazing (previously it was set stocked with cows). It’s all old PP with plenty of hedge rows and tree lines. Hopefully a nice little “reset” in time for me coming to manage it, or that’s the theory!

Now my question is what to do with it to get going, standing crop of hay on currently and a lot more grass than the sheep have seen before. Will they go through it? I’ve always thought that sheep prefer a shorter grass cover. I’m debating with myself as to whether to:

a. Mow for hay to reduce length and leave until a decent growth for sheep comes back (I have a regular supply of haylage for winter anyway so this would purely be to resell)
b. Electric fence them onto it in small paddocks (only issue being water) but probably the ideal solution to reduce rental costs (per head per week basis currently)
c. Put cows in front of them (perhaps offer a neighbour a few days grazing) but leave plenty behind for them to follow on


More than happy for any suggestions!

Ive put a couple of pictures on for reference, hoping to get the ground in a couple of weeks so trying to formulate a plan now.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Keep 'em tight enough and they'll even have a go at thistles and nettles:

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Hi all, been following this thread for a while now but first time posting so go easy! Trying to adapt management to better reflect a more hollistic approach.
I’m currently sheep only on rented ground, small scale (80 lambing ewes this time with 40 shearlings following for next year) around a full time job so balancing time and money. Had an opportunity a while ago to purchase 14ac which is in the process of going through now. Like I say, small scale but starting somewhere and 2 min walk to current rented ground so works really well. It has taken a while to go through so had approximately 18 months of no grazing (previously it was set stocked with cows). It’s all old PP with plenty of hedge rows and tree lines. Hopefully a nice little “reset” in time for me coming to manage it, or that’s the theory!

Now my question is what to do with it to get going, standing crop of hay on currently and a lot more grass than the sheep have seen before. Will they go through it? I’ve always thought that sheep prefer a shorter grass cover. I’m debating with myself as to whether to:

a. Mow for hay to reduce length and leave until a decent growth for sheep comes back (I have a regular supply of haylage for winter anyway so this would purely be to resell)
b. Electric fence them onto it in small paddocks (only issue being water) but probably the ideal solution to reduce rental costs (per head per week basis currently)
c. Put cows in front of them (perhaps offer a neighbour a few days grazing) but leave plenty behind for them to follow on


More than happy for any suggestions!

Ive put a couple of pictures on for reference, hoping to get the ground in a couple of weeks so trying to formulate a plan now.

Welcome to the "alternative reality" thread.

I can't offer much help on grass rats, they're not my speciality (except when cooked).

A nice looking pasture though.

 

[hendrebc]

Hi all, been following this thread for a while now but first time posting so go easy! Trying to adapt management to better reflect a more hollistic approach.
I’m currently sheep only on rented ground, small scale (80 lambing ewes this time with 40 shearlings following for next year) around a full time job so balancing time and money. Had an opportunity a while ago to purchase 14ac which is in the process of going through now. Like I say, small scale but starting somewhere and 2 min walk to current rented ground so works really well. It has taken a while to go through so had approximately 18 months of no grazing (previously it was set stocked with cows). It’s all old PP with plenty of hedge rows and tree lines. Hopefully a nice little “reset” in time for me coming to manage it, or that’s the theory!

Now my question is what to do with it to get going, standing crop of hay on currently and a lot more grass than the sheep have seen before. Will they go through it? I’ve always thought that sheep prefer a shorter grass cover. I’m debating with myself as to whether to:

a. Mow for hay to reduce length and leave until a decent growth for sheep comes back (I have a regular supply of haylage for winter anyway so this would purely be to resell)
b. Electric fence them onto it in small paddocks (only issue being water) but probably the ideal solution to reduce rental costs (per head per week basis currently)
c. Put cows in front of them (perhaps offer a neighbour a few days grazing) but leave plenty behind for them to follow on


More than happy for any suggestions!

Ive put a couple of pictures on for reference, hoping to get the ground in a couple of weeks so trying to formulate a plan now.

Electric fence it into paddocks as you said you will lose money (and fertility) making hay to sell and your neighbours cows will eat the best stuff leaving your ewes to eat the leftovers. Are the ewes still with their lambs or have they been weaned?
If they are still with their lambs put them in a paddock first to have a pick at the best stuff then clean up a bit after them with the shearlings. They won't eat it clean like cattle will but it will come back better.
If the lambs have been weaned do the same but with the lambs grazing ahead and the ewes and shearlings in one mob behind them.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Only small dogfish..... for reference, UK dog fish are are different to the NZ dogfish we caught in Doubtful sound
About the only good thing to say about UK dogfish, is that they are better than catching nothing.... but literally only just

Yeah thanks for that, I looked them up, they are quite different - ours are Spiny Dogfish
I still remember walking up a mullet net as a wee lad, and finding dogfish in the net, sh!t did I get out of the water fast!
The old blokes weren't far behind.... this was in an estuary, so we were reasonably surprised to see them in the brackish water chasing mullet

Cheers for confirming her birth date, saved me looking through the calving records on the computer just to confirm my suspicions.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Hi Brad! Welcome along.

Not too sure what I'd do TBH, do you have a hay shed on either of your parcels?
Personally I'd make it into small bales, which not only suit your small mob sizes, but also easy to store... and just hang onto them as a reserve

heaps of feed there and although you could put the sheep in to selectively graze it, you will possibly end up with quite a bit of yorkshire fog because they will likely avoid it (it's not very tasty once it gets away), or bounce out of the paddocks if you try making them..
.. borrowing some cattle to tidy up could work also, saves the baling expense (it's different if you need it, but hard to justify carrying costs when you're starting out.)

I personally wouldn't sell hay unless I really needed to, as per above it represents quite a low-value product to sell. Better to keep it on the place if you can.

Cheers for posting! Good bunch on here

 

[som farmer]

You clearly missed the info from the seeds industry, saying things like that...

the best keep we ever had for hfrs, free as well, was on chalkland, on a serious horse stud, each mare and foal had their own paddocks, so, horse/foal, for 6 days, hfrs for 6 days, then topped. That ground never saw fert, or a reseed, was immaculate, 1 groom per mare, hand shears for weeds around the post and rail fencing, absolutely nothing out of place, last year we had it, the 12 foals av £800,000 each - l did say serious. Hfrs grew as if they were on ad-lib cake, they didn't have anything other than a min bucket. There were disadvantages, having got used to post and rail fencing, they didn't take a lot of notice of barbed wire, and they were actually too quiet, 1 person could move them over large, 60ac+ fields, they followed in a line, behind him, fantastic to watch, but incredibly awkward to move them here. The keep was through a friend, who lost it, unfortunately. Those hfrs easily did 1kg+/day, and came back better than the ones here, on leys + 1kg conc. So that knocks a few seed reps claims, on the head. We were discouraged from seeing the hfrs, while they were there, so didn't actually work out what grasses were there, wild plantain, and wild clover were present, and nettles, thistles and docks, were conspicuous by their absence. Interesting and informative, and showing old pp, can be quite productive.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

the best keep we ever had for hfrs, free as well, was on chalkland, on a serious horse stud, each mare and foal had their own paddocks, so, horse/foal, for 6 days, hfrs for 6 days, then topped. That ground never saw fert, or a reseed, was immaculate, 1 groom per mare, hand shears for weeds around the post and rail fencing, absolutely nothing out of place, last year we had it, the 12 foals av £800,000 each - l did say serious. Hfrs grew as if they were on ad-lib cake, they didn't have anything other than a min bucket. There were disadvantages, having got used to post and rail fencing, they didn't take a lot of notice of barbed wire, and they were actually too quiet, 1 person could move them over large, 60ac+ fields, they followed in a line, behind him, fantastic to watch, but incredibly awkward to move them here. The keep was through a friend, who lost it, unfortunately. Those hfrs easily did 1kg+/day, and came back better than the ones here, on leys + 1kg conc. So that knocks a few seed reps claims, on the head. We were discouraged from seeing the hfrs, while they were there, so didn't actually work out what grasses were there, wild plantain, and wild clover were present, and nettles, thistles and docks, were conspicuous by their absence. Interesting and informative, and showing old pp, can be quite productive.

£800,000 each

what the feck are we doing!!!??

 

[GC74]

£800,000 each

what the feck are we doing!!!??

Growing cheap food…….
Any form of entertainment you seem to be able to name your price if you are able to convince people you are good!

 

[som farmer]

£800,000 each

what the feck are we doing!!!??

something wrong, that chap had 3 similar elsewhere, in the UK, and most mares were wintered in France. The vets that looked after the horses, did the pre movement TB test, always had the opinion there was no chance of not passing.
We went down once every 5/6 weeks, 2 mile drive, from the public road, electric gates, heli pad, permanent house keeper etc, a chance to see how the other half live !
We have a 'new' man on the block, incredibly wealthy, buying up farmland, at £14,500 starting point. He is rebuilding a large manor house, and out buildings, plus another close by, into a hotel for the rich, as a local, we got a rare invitation to have a tour, of the 'other', got the invite, because we held the 'hand deliverer' up, with the cows xing the road. Not really sure how to describe it, probably 'out of this world' is best, even the table foot ball game, was hand carved wood, and cheapest bedroom suite, was £500 night, min 2 night stay, and fully booked. This 'other' is linked to the main house, by a golf buggy station, which goes under the A371, council refused permission to move the route, or to tunnel it, at his expense, but allowed him to tunnel under ! There is/was a roman villa, with a fantastic mosaic, excavated in the 70's, and covered up, that has now been uncovered, as part of a roman museum, covered over with a building, council refused permission, to rebuild it, so he has built a replica, alongside. I could fill several pages, but leave it at 10's of £millions, have, and is continuing, to be spent. Over 200 contractors working on site, plus the 'domestic' staff.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Growing cheap food…….
Any form of entertainment you seem to be able to name your price if you are able to convince people you are good!

I feel bad that the first thing that jumped to mind was Rolf Harris