"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

Pleased to see a bit of this coming through.

Seed was eyewateringly expensive to be just flicking about in front of cattle, looks like we had far more success where they licked the seed off the leaf and put it out the back in a pile.

Note to self - good job for dewy autumnal mornings

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is also good to see, yes we are grazing alot too fast, but it's away now and we can graze at a speed of our choosing.

 

[Fake it ‘til you make it]

you would "assume" (we know what that means) that humankind would always be striving to be more resilient, and that we would have plenty of whatever it is that we "rely on", to hand at all times - but it seems the opposite is true, if anything

“Just in time” is normally more efficient and profitable, but is inherently less resilient to even small disruption to supply chains

 

[Johnny Whiteheads]

Grazing 150 day rested block 20km from other farms on daily moves. Dilemma is whether to go for second round (40 days rest but not a lot of regrowth) of grazing here now or leave till April when it will be hopefully dry enough to graze??

. Its low lying land.

 

[som farmer]

“Just in time” is normally more efficient and profitable, but is inherently less resilient to even small disruption to supply chains

the just in time, delivery system, has been shown to be failing at the moment, and obviously needs looking at, but in terms of efficiency, it's the ultimate system. The down side of any replacement system, really needs thinking about, if 'stores' have to hold more stock, to avoid 'running out', that comes with a hefty up front money requirement, having been through covid etc, how many can actually afford it, not referring to s/mkts, but ag suppliers, ag engineers etc.
While we might wish for the system to fold, can it actually afford to do so ? Is there actually any system that can replace it now, other than one that needs upfront cash.

 

[Fake it ‘til you make it]

the just in time, delivery system, has been shown to be failing at the moment, and obviously needs looking at, but in terms of efficiency, it's the ultimate system. The down side of any replacement system, really needs thinking about, if 'stores' have to hold more stock, to avoid 'running out', that comes with a hefty up front money requirement, having been through covid etc, how many can actually afford it, not referring to s/mkts, but ag suppliers, ag engineers etc.
While we might wish for the system to fold, can it actually afford to do so ? Is there actually any system that can replace it now, other than one that needs upfront cash.

Ali Baba is the largest retailer in the world. They have no shops and they hold zero stock. Credit and just in time logistics has facilitated huge economic growth that seemed unimaginable not many years ago.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

“Just in time” is normally more efficient and profitable, but is inherently less resilient to even small disruption to supply chains

Yes.

I think that to us personally, that's exactly what regenerative "isn't" = fragile

compare some business in town with very little stock "but we can get it in on the overnight courier" to a business 30, 40 years ago that had a large amount of stock on hand

effectively it was the nodal aspect that meant it was relatively resilient, or that the more mechanistic reliant business is more fragile

same deal if you're using 300kgN to grow 3TDM more than standard, works well in ideal conditions... without rain or at 700 quid a ton, not ideal conditions!

 

[Fake it ‘til you make it]

Yes.

I think that to us personally, that's exactly what regenerative "isn't" = fragile

compare some business in town with very little stock "but we can get it in on the overnight courier" to a business 30, 40 years ago that had a large amount of stock on hand

effectively it was the nodal aspect that meant it was relatively resilient, or that the more mechanistic reliant business is more fragile

same deal if you're using 300kgN to grow 3TDM more than standard, works well in ideal conditions... without rain or at 700 quid a ton, not ideal conditions!

Agreed. A bank manager might say it’s inefficient to be understocked and have money tied up in a barn full of hay in case of a drought/ hard winter. That might be why they manage banks, not farms!

 

[som farmer]

the old saying, a rick of hay, always pays the rent, of it's plot, is really true, having spent a fortune buying in fodder, for the last 3 years, it's true.
Management, is never easy in farming, simply to many factors outside of our control, bank managing is easy, do what the computer tells you.
This coming year, is going to test management of farmers skills, with N at £650 ton, there will be a very rapid learning curve for some ! Those very heavily stocked, are going to be severely tested.
As to a barn full of hay, we have just been given 15 acres, of unfertilised 2nd cut, which, with our own 5th cut and estimated maize yield, l reckon we have made more fodder, this year, close to the sum of the last three years, in total, that then gives us the options, to carry a lot over, in case we get another dry year, or not use so much N, or even increase stock numbers, the latter may well happen, unintentionally, TB test.
With what we have learn't managing our farm, through 3 yrs of very dry summers, we actually do have options, and that learning curve, has made the farm much more resilient, to stress factors, the price of N is surely one of those stress factors !

 

[som farmer]

even better, the 15 acres, is next door, and we are allowed to put a gate in, which will open into our out wintering rape field, by road and farm track, it would be a good 1/2 mile, but, it gets even better, she's checked her deeds, and she owns the boundary hedge, would it be all right if she properly stock fenced 'our' side of the hedge, not a problem, she's very nice, even speaks to us, and has just bought 4 acres of the 15, needs it fenced, so if her dogs run off, they cant get out.

 

[Guleesh]

Grazing 150 day rested block 20km from other farms on daily moves. Dilemma is whether to go for second round (40 days rest but not a lot of regrowth) of grazing here now or leave till April when it will be hopefully dry enough to graze?? View attachment 991409. Its low lying land. View attachment 991408

Top photo looks like it would benefit from a really good trampling and maybe poaching a little, bottom photo looks something about right to be left till spring IMO. Generally I think you're better with as much of the grass contacting the ground as possible through winter where it can be broken down and ready to be utilised by new growth in spring, rather than left in dead clumps that will just slow the spring growth, however, in the wet bits it's perhaps more important to leave the cover a bit fluffier.

What I see is going on on our ground here is that wetter low lying ground is far less active in breaking down dead grass in winter so if it's trampled down too hard it just sits in water and goes anaerobic - moss will grow over it, it's best left standing up a bit, then it can be better utilised by the soil when things dry up in spring.

Well drained soil appears to me to be still very much alive through winter and just needs to be fed, I think it is better off with a bit of roughing up and the grass pressed much harder into the surface.

Nothing here was grazed since lambing, we've a little flat 1/2 acre next to our fank that got trampled really hard by some lambs at weaning time, it's grown back beautifully and looks great but is alarmingly wet underfoot compared to just over the fence where we grazed more lightly and it is still mostly standing. Basically the hard trampling still needs done but I think it's best left as near spring as possible on the wettest bits.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Agreed. A bank manager might say it’s inefficient to be understocked and have money tied up in a barn full of hay in case of a drought/ hard winter. That might be why they manage banks, not farms!

Ooo yes.
Likewise it's often really 'ineffective' to try to DIY everything and it turns out that efficiency isn't quite as important as effectiveness.... that old "starving a business into profit" thing

whereas a more regenerative organisation is likely to have leaders that manage efficient effectiveness, even if everyone on the team is a leader, it works. One leader goes down, the rest step up a little

Without instigating yet another dozen-page definition of what is "natural" you see this happen around you every day,
a hedge loses a plant but doesn't necessarily sport a gap


Thus it's quite easy to see which businesses are tending regenerative and which ones are tending degenerative, by seeing what they do in less than ideal conditions

 

[Fenwick]

the old saying, a rick of hay, always pays the rent, of it's plot, is really true, having spent a fortune buying in fodder, for the last 3 years, it's true

l reckon we have made more fodder, this year, close to the sum of the last three years, in total, that then gives us the options, to carry a lot over, in case we get another dry year, or not use so much N, or even increase stock numbers, the latter may well happen, unintentionally, TB test.

I don't completely agree. Its been the same story over here. Been a lot of growth this summer. A lot of farmers have made an awful lot of stock, lots of happy faces.
Funny thing is this means that a lot of money is stuck in stocks and as everyone has lots of forage the prices are really low.. Some have stopped harvesting because its all costing too much.

Its actually a great year to buy forage. I haven't cut more than usual. Though I do have some reasonable stockpile.

 

[som farmer]

I don't completely agree. Its been the same story over here. Been a lot of growth this summer. A lot of farmers have made an awful lot of stock, lots of happy faces.
Funny thing is this means that a lot of money is stuck in stocks and as everyone has lots of forage the prices are really low.. Some have stopped harvesting because its all costing too much.

Its actually a great year to buy forage. I haven't cut more than usual. Though I do have some reasonable stockpile.

3 yrs of buying, changed my mind. To put it in context, we usually helped my uncle out with fodder, very rarely were we short, always made plenty, even though we are a 'dry' farm. Till recently, that is. We talk about climate change, l have some doubts about that, but l do believe in changing climate, been here all my life, and never seen/been through this drier spell.
Which is the reason l ended up on this thread, but the amount of ideas, traits, or whatever, l have learnt, has changed our farming practices, and now feel we are more resilient, to withstand our changing climate, but we will always look at good value hay, it will always pay for it's corner, of our barn. When you need to buy, many others are short = dear fodder, basically we spent the profit, buying feed for the cows, a situation we will definitely try to avoid again !

 

[Jonny B88]

This is also good to see, yes we are grazing alot too fast, but it's away now and we can graze at a speed of our choosing. View attachment 991407

Do you have a pic of the dung the cattle are leaving after that?

 

[som farmer]

Do you have a pic of the dung the cattle are leaving after that?

we have to watch the dung, as important as watching the grass. Our nutritionist, will always inspect the cows, and their 'output', before going through the ration.
I believe a lot of doctors, in other countries, put a lot of faith, in their patients dung, perhaps this country is a little more prudish than others !
But shite is one of the signs that our animals are either well or not. One of the problems of using wormers, is the fact that it does no good to soil fauna. There is the practice of clean grazing, alternating between sheep and cattle, that, for us, being dairy, is not an option for us, although we do keep 1 field for yr 1 calves only.
Then there is lung worm, we use cydectin LA for that, but the shite gets 'absorbed' quite quickly, so hopefully not to bad. As time goes on, l am certain more 'control' over the use of many everyday vet products, like wormers, fly sprays, fluke etc, like the use of a/biotics etc, will be lost to us, another 'modern' tool, that we will have to do without.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Do you have a pic of the dung the cattle are leaving after that?

It's really difficult to find pats that someone hasn't put their foot in.

 

[Crofter64]

It's really difficult to find pats that someone hasn't put their foot in.View attachment 991578View attachment 991579View attachment 991580View attachment 991581

I find it weird when people show me photographs of meals they have eaten, but these photos are really pushing the limits .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I find it weird when people show me photographs of meals they have eaten, but these photos are really pushing the limits .

Yeah, a bit looser than I would like, but hey it's spring grass.

Luckily keeping them tight and grazing tight has provided a good early feed supply for them, will keep them on about a 6 week rotation as I think that will give us balance

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I find it weird when people show me photographs of meals they have eaten, but these photos are really pushing the limits .

"Rate my plate", retrospective version