- Location
- somerset
weaned the lambs off ? Can't see any, you need a robotic cow.
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
- Location
- Top of the Chilterns
Apologies for the really basic arable farmer question, and I'm afraid I haven't read all this thread, but in a multi species temporary ley, how does the eat a third, trample a third and leave a third work with regard to seed return?
Every time I see a ryegrass head in mine I want to get the topper out!
Every time I see a ryegrass head in mine I want to get the topper out!
- Location
- somerset
short answer, don't use ryegrass, drives me nuts, slightest stress, shoots up a seed head. we are dry ground, and increasingly struggle with grazing, for dairy cows.
so using other grasses, clovers, chicory and plantain, and very pleased.
3rd to eat
3rd to help the roots get stronger
3rd to build soil.
so using other grasses, clovers, chicory and plantain, and very pleased.
3rd to eat
3rd to help the roots get stronger
3rd to build soil.
Yep just weaned them
Second time over in here this year,
Not enough cattle in there really but there are three young bulls so we can't just put anything in
The field is called long ground for obvious reasons and in an acre and a half, would be much the same thing as @Farmer Roy would be farming I would think
Not enough cattle in there really but there are three young bulls so we can't just put anything in
The field is called long ground for obvious reasons and in an acre and a half, would be much the same thing as @Farmer Roy would be farming I would think
Second time over in here to but I topped this quite low after the first grazing as we were forecast good rain and it had got very turfy, it responded well
Same comments re density, certain bull we only want certain cows with.
It don't show up in the pic but there was a rainbows end just by the oak butt you can see on the right, don't know if that means the price of timber has gone up to match gold ? @egbert
Same comments re density, certain bull we only want certain cows with.
It don't show up in the pic but there was a rainbows end just by the oak butt you can see on the right, don't know if that means the price of timber has gone up to match gold ? @egbert
Round oak up by about 70-80% over 3-4 years.
It'd already jumped before current nonsense.
I hear tales of stupidity, but don't seem to have issues with supply.
Still a jolt when faced with having to pay well into 4 figures for big clean butts.
Softwood however is insane.
Doubled during 2021, eased a touch last autumn, but gone up again now.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It works better, the shorter-term you're looking.
Grazing /cutting = stressing the plants, unsurprisingly!
.. you can knock it down 2x a year and stress it twice; or you can "go easy" and stress it every 4 weeks, over time that extra stress adds up - but in a temporary ley it won't make much difference?
Selective grazing + topping possibly gives the most aesthetic success; you get to keep topping it through the spring/summer period when the flowering occurs, but then you're possibly missing most of the benefits of multispecies if they aren't flowering (pollinators etc)??
Nonselective grazing will do the topping but many plants will have time to throw up another seedhead if the recovery is in the ballpark for maximising exudate production - as this is less limited after the initial "rebuilding" or recovery phase.
(it's a little bit like family, "parents" are working hard and hanging in there - but grandparents have time and resources to spare - so that extra time is really beneficial for the soil.
It will get more goodies in the last 3 weeks than the first 5 weeks, partial / selective grazing is really limiting).
But it looks nice.
The old understanding was that litter / residue / green manure was responsible for humus production but it's really liquid carbon from roots and lack of stress that helps build it fastest - so whatever maximises photosynthesis and minimises stress is the winner.
Unfortunately grazing then topping after often equals overgrazing, if the topper is low enough to do much "work" then it is possibly nailing regrowth from plants grazed correctly by the stock.
If it isn't set low enough to hit regrowth then it will look patchier and may miss some seedheads, or they will stand up after - just to annoy you, you must realise
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
My sister was married on June 22 and my Dad started his speech by saying it was a very important day …..the day operation Barbarossa began ( Nazi invasion of Soviet Union) . My sister was a tad surprised to say the least!
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Jonny B88
Member
- Location
- ballykelly. NI
And to think that wasn’t that long ago!
- Location
- West Yorkshire
Well trained to sleeping on hills here.
they would normally be on the left of the picture but I don’t think they appreciate sleeping on thistles from the mess I made through the winter
they would normally be on the left of the picture but I don’t think they appreciate sleeping on thistles from the mess I made through the winter
- Location
- somerset
it is a good crop of thistles, we find them very easy to grow. What we need, is to find a use for them, could be a cash crop !
checking cattle on our away ground, some ignorant had walked through, and left 3 field gates open, including the road gate. They are all hung properly, easy to close.
Another person told us a spring on a wicket gate had broken, don't mind people telling me that, l thank them very much.
Its a shame really, virtually everyone we meet up there, is polite, interested and friendly. Had a little trouble with a gate between to lots of stock being left not latched, bit difficult to do, so put a chain and snap hook there, no trouble since.
and if anyone knows a rain dance that works, please send it to me, missed a lot of rain now, things are getting serious, l can confirm the herbs are still growing well. Its odd, what we have cut, or grazed, starts to green up nicely, and stops, but stays green, 2 or 3 ins high. The difference between now, and 2/3 years ago, is we have enough fodder, either in, baled, or for later cut, previously, we would be panicking.
Sort of thinking about including chicory, plantain, and other deep rooted herbs, everywhere, cutting grounds the lot, they grow when dry. Whether we do ?
checking cattle on our away ground, some ignorant had walked through, and left 3 field gates open, including the road gate. They are all hung properly, easy to close.
Another person told us a spring on a wicket gate had broken, don't mind people telling me that, l thank them very much.
Its a shame really, virtually everyone we meet up there, is polite, interested and friendly. Had a little trouble with a gate between to lots of stock being left not latched, bit difficult to do, so put a chain and snap hook there, no trouble since.
and if anyone knows a rain dance that works, please send it to me, missed a lot of rain now, things are getting serious, l can confirm the herbs are still growing well. Its odd, what we have cut, or grazed, starts to green up nicely, and stops, but stays green, 2 or 3 ins high. The difference between now, and 2/3 years ago, is we have enough fodder, either in, baled, or for later cut, previously, we would be panicking.
Sort of thinking about including chicory, plantain, and other deep rooted herbs, everywhere, cutting grounds the lot, they grow when dry. Whether we do ?
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
In the climate we seem to be heading for, all grass swards just ain't going to work well.....
- Location
- somerset
whoever did the rain dance, please do another, we had a drop last night.
all grass swards, farmed them, without clover, for years, with no real problems, and good yields.
that was yesterdays system of farming, unfortuantly it doesn't seem to work any more, what we don't know, is this the new 'normal', or a blip, that's unfortunate as well. And people wonder why we moan about the weather.
How far do we go, along the herbal route ? All l can say, is herbs grow, when grass doesn't, hence my comment about chucking seed everywhere. Has anyone actually seen diverse leys, produce good yields, without fert, know the theory, and for certain, any 'rep talk' will only pick and mix, the good points, from farmer results.
We thought we had built resilience into our system, in some ways, we have, winter fodder is pretty well sorted, its this time of year, and grazing, simply run out of grass, its not growing fast enough. Whether that's all down to moisture, or lack of N, l don't know, one would assume, N from clover should be kicking in. If we were in july, things wouldn't be so bad, cows would be drying off, june, we are losing milk, to early. Thought we would get a kick in milk, grazing the r/clover, we got a drop, instead, the companion r/grass is 'standing hay', which they ignore, though they eat the seed heads.
We are getting the system improving, the last 'bit' is the mid season grazing, 110 cows have nearly 70 acres of grass allotted to them, which should be plenty. One of the problems, is that grazing grass, grew to well early, and we had to ensile a chunk, it was way to much, to sensibly graze. Whether using more herbs, clover etc, would solve the issue, l don't know. And l think our cut only leys policy, might change, l feel that maximum area of grass, should be available, if needed, any shortfall, in fodder stocks, should be corrected, by using early, or later, cuts, that would leave over 100 acres for grazing, which is a bit ridiculous.
Oh well, keep plodding on, trying to get the system right.
Strong ryegrass swards don’t seem to be performing first rotation great. Second round they are deceiving. From a distance don’t look too bad but there’s a high proportion of seed and stalk than leaf which there is in the fields with more diversity. Dung score is good gut fill is good but the cows are losing a bit of their shine.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It seems to work on native grasslands just fine, but they perform "without expectations of more"
they grow what they grow from the rain that they get, and it's always enough.
If pastures aren't growing "enough" then any fault is likely due to expectation being a bit too high, or rainfall effectiveness being a bit too poor - I was on a webinar the other week with a group of farmers learning to manage all-year-round grazing with sub 50mm rainfall, so it can be done alright.
If you're running out of grass then you're overstocked. Using fert around here has traditionally doubled our acreage but they aren't cheap acres anymore hence us stopping using it and changing stocking rates and rest periods. We probably grow more grass here now since we stopped putting fert on the grazing ground
.Probably need to look closer at costs and labour etc as well, in my mind its way cheaper to graze pasture that you think is too long to graze rather than mowing, baling, wrapping/putting in the pit to feed out again at a later date when you've run out of grass mid June. Even losing a few litres of milk shouldn't matter just depends how your calculator works
Be brave, there's no such thing as can't
- Location
- somerset
240 acresIf you're running out of grass then you're overstocked. Using fert around here has traditionally doubled our acreage but they aren't cheap acres anymore hence us stopping using it and changing stocking rates and rest periods. We probably grow more grass here now since we stopped putting fert on the grazing ground
Probably need to look closer at costs and labour etc as well, in my mind its way cheaper to graze pasture that you think is too long to graze rather than mowing, baling, wrapping/putting in the pit to feed out again at a later date when you've run out of grass mid June. Even losing a few litres of milk shouldn't matter just depends how your calculator works
Be brave, there's no such thing as can't
120 dairy cows
62 hfrs, from i/c to 2/3 months
72 beef, nearly all under 6 months, including 26 not turned out.
20 acres maize
29 acres corn
all dry cows, 7,, all dairy hfrs, and 20 beef, on our away ground, the others on some poor ground here.
so not really pushing the stocking rate, we just fall apart july/aug, which we can sort of control, may/june, is simply to early to lose grass. Perhaps we should return to growing forage rape, for then, which we really want to avoid, it turns out as forest of fat hen.
in a good year, we could nearly double that, with fert, easily, except the good years, seem to get scarcer.
but as @Samcowman said, the ryegrass is great first round, then just looks great, till you get closer, and the reality is, there's no 'body' to it, and the cows go over it, last 7 acres, we grazed, lasted 2 feeds, and that had herbs in part, and bottom grass, as well, 28 day recovery period.
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The numbers are largely irrelevant as every farm is different but if you're running out of grass then you have too many mouths to feed. How you fix that is dependant on what you want I guess, we're in a much different position as with beef and sheep I work off farm most of the summer and don't have the time/want to buffer feed through the summer.
Haven't perfected it yet, work in progress when it comes to infrastructure/paddock size etc but we have enough grass for the grazing season