G and S show ?
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
We do have an advantage down here and that's when the grass does get going it can grow for most of the winter.
Glad you've got hold of some hay.
- Location
- Cornwall
Will depend on timing but, looks like our summer has sprayed it off for you!
I’d almost be inclined to just direct drill your winter brassica straight in to that. I reckon it’ll emerge quicker than the grass will recover and smother most of it, and at the end you’ll have brassicas with some grass in it. Might reduce the poaching at grazing, reduce the requirement for hay/silage in field?
Will have to see what the weather brings next week looks like there could be a drop of rain but if nothing materialises then no spraying will probably be the option to use. The other field is stubble but wont be able to be drilled until after the farm sale on 17th.
Fenwick
Member
- Location
- Bretagne France
Well the rain never did come.
6mm in may
12mm in june
0mm in july
0mm in august (until now), maybe a little next week 5-mm forecast for the week).
We will have to destock a bit.
To be honest, things are quite bad over here. I see it is starting over in parts of the UK too.
There are forest fires all over the place. Including Villecartier forest about 3kms away, 35 hectares gone.
I have found the whole thing rather stressfull.
I suppose that at least the planning that has been put in place makes it easy to deal with.
Incredibly the cows are still grazing 100%. A mate up the road has been feeding like in winter for 2 months already.
I had a chat with the local cattle dealer yesterday. Cattle sales have increased 100% due to the drought. Prices havent dropped yet though, and he thinks they wont any time soon as there are just not enough cattle being produced anymore.
- Location
- Cornwall
I wouldn’t get too excited. It seems to be less and less as the days go down. Might get enough to damp the dust Mon/Tue. Or you might jag a thunder shower and get flooded!
- Location
- somerset
l wouldn't like to see our shrivelled grass catch fire, it would soon be black, and terminally shrivelled.
Cut some barley today, av 2.5 tonnish, thought it would do better, the half on sandy loam, did, the bit on the brash let it down, decent swathe of straw.
will cut the dd barley tomorrow, it will be interesting to see how it yields.
Cut some barley today, av 2.5 tonnish, thought it would do better, the half on sandy loam, did, the bit on the brash let it down, decent swathe of straw.
will cut the dd barley tomorrow, it will be interesting to see how it yields.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Not much wrong with a "feed them first" policy in a drought, really.
It's just a matter of preference, and in some cases recognising that drought is imminent... one thing noticing it's very dry, but quite another taking early action?
Personally I am thinking that next summer I begin to supplement early-on to ensure the recovery is sufficient: because our rainfall patterns aren't providing much autumnal growth I could feed them then, in the dry, instead of grazing all the grass and then feeding hay.
I think it would be more practical for us to buy (for example) 2 conventional bales per head and feed out over summertime, and just graze grass in the wintertime
than buy hay when it's more expensive, and the ground is soft- Location
- somerset
as we are in an official drought, new moves are needed, to farm it.
as l said earlier, long recovery periods can work, but in drought conditions, is it sensible thing to leave a lot of dry shrivelled grass about ? Certainly a serious fire risk, could end up with nothing.
We have 'standing' hay left about, that would catch fire, in a flash. And it must be in a dormant stage, or a retreating stage. The big unknown, is what will grow back, when rain finally comes ? Will it be the dormant useful grass plants, or the grass seeds in the seed bank ? Not worried about herbs and clover, they will come, but AGM etc, that would require a reseed of some kind. Perhaps we could be better off, with natural regrowth, well managed pp can yield well, it is an idea, that could be worth looking at.
Going back to the result of leaving the grass in that longer recovery period, no doubts about leaving it, it worked, but, in these conditions, it was wrong to leave it, 2 weeks ago, looked at 1 piece, there was enough to take a cut of hay, there isn't now. That would have supplied some sensible grazing, instead we replaced that with silage, and lost the grass.
It all really depends on the weather, we have no idea what we will get, @Farmer Roy, his farm is flooded, at the wrong time of year ! We now expect dry summers, just as likely get a run of wet ones, so, what does one do ? A couple of weeks ago, l was quite happy with our grass, reseeds were not on the cards, now, not so sure, its getting grimmer by the day, which brings the 'what comes back', scenario, into the financial system, it isn't sensible or viable, to end up with low production pasture. 2 months ago, doing some digger work, bugger all moisture in the top foot, it wont have improved. We will get round it, we haven't got a choice, quite happy with the regen principals we do, but at the moment, they don't work, if they did, we would have fodder. So, next step on from regen ?
There is the ultimate, with milkers making unheard of prices, maize in the field making over £1,000 /acre, pit silage etc etc, perhaps the ideal time ? We have looked at selling, and the auctioneers, have been 'pushing' for a yes/no, as there are a lot 'talking'. Their advice, not at the moment, with good amounts of winter fodder, and a big heap of grain, coupled with milk price, and falling supplies, looks like a profitable winter. We agree.
It still doesn't answer the question, where do we go from here, even on this thread, things are looking pretty dire grass wise. Could be a 1 off, or the new normal. The best bit, is the fact farmers are looking, listening, and trying new ideas, on here, plenty of farmers are still locked in the same old routine.
If we have a lot of fudged grass, could be an idea to grow w/crop, instead of grass, as a 1 cut, bulk forage, certainly a cheaper solution to reseeding, could even under sow it. There are other plants out there, as well. But, any changes, are governed, by the one thing, that is neither controllable, or predictable, the weather.
must be dry, next door was combining by 9.30, that early start, is definitely unheard of.
as l said earlier, long recovery periods can work, but in drought conditions, is it sensible thing to leave a lot of dry shrivelled grass about ? Certainly a serious fire risk, could end up with nothing.
We have 'standing' hay left about, that would catch fire, in a flash. And it must be in a dormant stage, or a retreating stage. The big unknown, is what will grow back, when rain finally comes ? Will it be the dormant useful grass plants, or the grass seeds in the seed bank ? Not worried about herbs and clover, they will come, but AGM etc, that would require a reseed of some kind. Perhaps we could be better off, with natural regrowth, well managed pp can yield well, it is an idea, that could be worth looking at.
Going back to the result of leaving the grass in that longer recovery period, no doubts about leaving it, it worked, but, in these conditions, it was wrong to leave it, 2 weeks ago, looked at 1 piece, there was enough to take a cut of hay, there isn't now. That would have supplied some sensible grazing, instead we replaced that with silage, and lost the grass.
It all really depends on the weather, we have no idea what we will get, @Farmer Roy, his farm is flooded, at the wrong time of year ! We now expect dry summers, just as likely get a run of wet ones, so, what does one do ? A couple of weeks ago, l was quite happy with our grass, reseeds were not on the cards, now, not so sure, its getting grimmer by the day, which brings the 'what comes back', scenario, into the financial system, it isn't sensible or viable, to end up with low production pasture. 2 months ago, doing some digger work, bugger all moisture in the top foot, it wont have improved. We will get round it, we haven't got a choice, quite happy with the regen principals we do, but at the moment, they don't work, if they did, we would have fodder. So, next step on from regen ?
There is the ultimate, with milkers making unheard of prices, maize in the field making over £1,000 /acre, pit silage etc etc, perhaps the ideal time ? We have looked at selling, and the auctioneers, have been 'pushing' for a yes/no, as there are a lot 'talking'. Their advice, not at the moment, with good amounts of winter fodder, and a big heap of grain, coupled with milk price, and falling supplies, looks like a profitable winter. We agree.
It still doesn't answer the question, where do we go from here, even on this thread, things are looking pretty dire grass wise. Could be a 1 off, or the new normal. The best bit, is the fact farmers are looking, listening, and trying new ideas, on here, plenty of farmers are still locked in the same old routine.
If we have a lot of fudged grass, could be an idea to grow w/crop, instead of grass, as a 1 cut, bulk forage, certainly a cheaper solution to reseeding, could even under sow it. There are other plants out there, as well. But, any changes, are governed, by the one thing, that is neither controllable, or predictable, the weather.
must be dry, next door was combining by 9.30, that early start, is definitely unheard of.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
The thing is, flooding is as normal for us as droughts are
we have a run of dry years, a run of wet years & occasionally years that are meant to be “normal”
The only constant is we have to be able to adapt from year to year. Every year . . .
the big advantage of floods for us is that they pretty much “drought proof” us for a couple of years. If next year is very dry, yields will be down, but at least we will still get a crop from the stored soil moisture from this year. It’s year 3 or 4 of drought that we really start to get into trouble . . .
we don’t really aim for maximum yields, our focus is trying to maintain some semblance of consistency from year to year
but I also agree with you, our long term climate is changing & the extremes seem to be more extreme & more frequent.
This is something I’ve been saying on TFF since I joined, saying that we are learning to come to terms with it, but eventually the “softer” environments such as UK will have to change their ways. Of course, no one listened, or those who did just got defensive . . .
it is what it is
we have a run of dry years, a run of wet years & occasionally years that are meant to be “normal”
The only constant is we have to be able to adapt from year to year. Every year . . .
the big advantage of floods for us is that they pretty much “drought proof” us for a couple of years. If next year is very dry, yields will be down, but at least we will still get a crop from the stored soil moisture from this year. It’s year 3 or 4 of drought that we really start to get into trouble . . .
we don’t really aim for maximum yields, our focus is trying to maintain some semblance of consistency from year to year
but I also agree with you, our long term climate is changing & the extremes seem to be more extreme & more frequent.
This is something I’ve been saying on TFF since I joined, saying that we are learning to come to terms with it, but eventually the “softer” environments such as UK will have to change their ways. Of course, no one listened, or those who did just got defensive . . .
it is what it is
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This is my attempt at holistic/ regenerative grazing on my Croft . I haven’t got a clue apart from what I’ve learnt on here. The cows were on here strong in April then rested until June then just on light then rested until now as I am putting them on next week . 1st pic April 2nd pic June and last pics now. My other fields I rotate and don’t allow the long recovery as they are fields I get for free so have to keep them ‘tidy’ and other fields I set stock as rented . This one I need to repair as years of horse sick but after 10 years cows and two years long recovery it’s doing great . Masses of diversity in plants and insects and lots of plantain and vetch for cows . Lots of wild white clover . I often can’t understand the threads on here as too much conflicting info but I’m hoping I’ve gleaned something
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- Location
- somerset
l'm trying hard !
but you are spot on. If we use rainfall as a guide, the av might be similar, what we should measure, is usable rainfall, that will be a very different figure. We don't seem to get 'steady' rain now, its all or nothing, and the all bit runs off to quickly.
We haven't a choice but to find a solution, which no doubt we will, but l rather think the days of cheap food, are drawing to a close, and correctly so. Cheap food, took us down a path, that wasn't sustainable, and its only now, is it beginning to show.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
The mistake that so many folk make is epitomised by the financial crash of 2008 (well, it would have been a crash if the banks had been allowed to fail due to their recklessness); that we focus on the average and discount the outliers. The trouble is it's the outliers that could take us out.
I read that some economic models predicted that a banking crash was possible but it was seen as a "black swan event" and discounted as so unlikely it wasn't worth planning for. However, if the impacts of such an event are catastrophic then it's negligent NOT to include it in our planning.
We can already see that summers like this ARE going to happen in the UK so we either build resilience to them into our plans or accept that they may sink our business when they do happen.
If your business plan is not resillient to the extreme events then it isn't really resilient at all. That includes heatwaves, floods, disease outbreaks, personal injury and all manner of other calamities.
The approach of farmers in Roy's area exhibits this. UK farmers aren't event close. Yet. Just look at the approach many are taking to the subsidy changes.
To be fair, it's easy for me to say that, now I'm retiring from farming, but the comment still holds.
Is arable or grass farming based on irrigation a resilient business plan in this new climate?
Where and how should veg and spuds be grown now?
Should we be coercing half London's population to move to a higher rainfall area?
- Location
- Essex
Is anyone growing knapweed with a view to grazing and is it any good? There's lots round here on the verges and ditch banks.
- Location
- Essex
They chose not to believe the science.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Yes makes lovely silage , cows seem to like it
Our main mob are in a knapweed heavy field atm. I left them in the thickest section for slightly longer than normal as it still looked quite shaggy, when I moved them, they'd taken all the grass , clovers, trefoils etc down to the ground and not touched a leaf of the knapweed. Nice to have the odd patch, but I'd say not good fodder. At least the seeds won't be spread to the next field in the dung. Maybe it is just too dry now, after Treg's comment...
In 2018 the veg fields opposite side the valley had 3 failed crops in a row , since then they been using green cover crops over winter and have made vast improvements in soil quality, so far the Broccoli plants are still living if we get rain soon they should still survive but they are down to single cropping rather than double cropping.
Hay / silage in the barn is resilience, this has got stop, not all farms can do year round cropping.
A neighbouring farm is on sand ( towans, but think that maybe a cornish word? ) he keeps a stack of round bales 500/600 spare in case of dry summers , he's built up his grazing covers through spring, looked really good but has just seen it all disappear, it's withered and gone, he's not worried at all because his storage of round bales has given him resilience.
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