"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Treg]

Our main mob are in a knapweed heavy field atm. I left them in the thickest section for slightly longer than normal as it still looked quite shaggy, when I moved them, they'd taken all the grass , clovers, trefoils etc down to the ground and not touched a leaf of the knapweed. Nice to have the odd patch, but I'd say not good fodder. At least the seeds won't be spread to the next field in the dung. Maybe it is just too dry now, after Treg's comment...

My youngstock usually graze it and leave field fairly even, so don't leave the knapweed but I do graze & cut when leafy .
I've now cut a field with it in that was much more stalky so probably at the stage it's less palatable for stock.
Bit like chicory it's gazing / cutting it at the right stages.

 

[martian]

My youngstock usually graze it and leave field fairly even, so don't leave the knapweed but I do graze & cut when leafy .
I've now cut a field with it in that was much more stalky so probably at the stage it's less palatable for stock.
Bit like chicory it's gazing / cutting it at the right stages.

We took a fair bit of silage/hay off our arable acres...dirty winter crops and over wintered cover crops that weren't worth killing as it was by then too dry for spring cropping, that sort of thing. Allowed us to graze all pastures, none shut up for hay etc, so the pastures rather got away from us and are now stalky. Cattle doing well on the diet though and we've a good wedge ahead of them, which is as well as regrowth is slow. Difficult to get the right balance of flattening the coarse stuff, but leaving enough to regrow. Having a tangled stalk mulch protects the soil and seems to speed regrowth when you wouldn't expect it. Can't see any point in cutting, feels a bit recreational. Bolted chicory is quite popular, they pick each leaf off delicately and leave a few seeds and the stalks which go down well with the goldfinches later in the year.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Tuesday I came home from north Essex along the A120. One area of large arable fields had been deep cultivated after the combine. This is on heavy clay and in the driest August since '76. How they'll get the clods to pieces to make a seedbed I have no idea (well, I do, they'll throw huge amounts of fossil fuel at it). It'll take a LOT of rain before the next crop will grow in that land now.

We really need to re-learn how to conserve moisture in our farming operations in the UK.

but in fairness/ bit of balance is that there is Absolutely no fire risk on that ground now, and that is a bigger immediate lesson to learn about (as far as i can what with all the fires there are /have been around the country ) than moisture conservation it could be argued.

 

[Boso]

I know this is me reposting and will not help you guys now, however it might help you next year.
I'm in the Netherlands, just like in the uk no serious rainfall since febr/march and only freaky summers since 2018. Groundwater aquafers (or how you call it) have not been back to normal since '18.

Last year we had a months worth of rainfall in 24h, actually flooding parts of Belgium, Germany and the province where I live and killing hundreds in our tri-border region.

With unpredictable rainfall and dry summers I think every grazing operation should invest in or organize a summer slump cover crop. My pastures and fields look just like yours.
Arable farmers are afraid of loosing potatoes, beets, corn looks awfull. For me as a sheep only enterprise with on average 100-120 days rest the moment has come that normally I would have to go back much sooner or start feeding hay.
However I have a 6-7 acre (3 ha) cover crop plot. Sudan gras, forage rape, sunflowers, vetches etc(25 different species and far to expensive).
Seeded in may, one rainspell got it going, due to the cover soil is cool and it kept growing, now 1.5-3m tall. Without fert on very sandy heather like soil.
Now it will feed my sheep for a month to six weeks.

I invested far to much money in the plot. If I see how the yanks make deer foodplots with atv.

I do not mean to be rude or offensive in any way but look at what others (India, United States, Eastern Europe etc) are doing who have been dealing with such hot and dry summers for far longer than we have.

 

[crashbox]

I know this is me reposting and will not help you guys now, however it might help you next year.
I'm in the Netherlands, just like in the uk no serious rainfall since febr/march and only freaky summers since 2018. Groundwater aquafers (or how you call it) have not been back to normal since '18.

Last year we had a months worth of rainfall in 24h, actually flooding parts of Belgium, Germany and the province where I live and killing hundreds in our tri-border region.

With unpredictable rainfall and dry summers I think every grazing operation should invest in or organize a summer slump cover crop. My pastures and fields look just like yours.
Arable farmers are afraid of loosing potatoes, beets, corn looks awfull. For me as a sheep only enterprise with on average 100-120 days rest the moment has come that normally I would have to go back much sooner or start feeding hay.
However I have a 6-7 acre (3 ha) cover crop plot. Sudan gras, forage rape, sunflowers, vetches etc(25 different species and far to expensive).
Seeded in may, one rainspell got it going, due to the cover soil is cool and it kept growing, now 1.5-3m tall. Without fert on very sandy heather like soil.
Now it will feed my sheep for a month to six weeks.

I invested far to much money in the plot. If I see how the yanks make deer foodplots with atv.

I do not mean to be rude or offensive in any way but look at what others (India, United States, Eastern Europe etc) are doing who have been dealing with such hot and dry summers for far longer than we have.

Sounds like a great plan, any photos?

I am interested in establishing an area of high cover summer annuals for grazing, but not sure how to establish into existing grass sward. Spray off and Direct Drill?

 

[Treg]

I know this is me reposting and will not help you guys now, however it might help you next year.
I'm in the Netherlands, just like in the uk no serious rainfall since febr/march and only freaky summers since 2018. Groundwater aquafers (or how you call it) have not been back to normal since '18.

Last year we had a months worth of rainfall in 24h, actually flooding parts of Belgium, Germany and the province where I live and killing hundreds in our tri-border region.

With unpredictable rainfall and dry summers I think every grazing operation should invest in or organize a summer slump cover crop. My pastures and fields look just like yours.
Arable farmers are afraid of loosing potatoes, beets, corn looks awfull. For me as a sheep only enterprise with on average 100-120 days rest the moment has come that normally I would have to go back much sooner or start feeding hay.
However I have a 6-7 acre (3 ha) cover crop plot. Sudan gras, forage rape, sunflowers, vetches etc(25 different species and far to expensive).
Seeded in may, one rainspell got it going, due to the cover soil is cool and it kept growing, now 1.5-3m tall. Without fert on very sandy heather like soil.
Now it will feed my sheep for a month to six weeks.

I invested far to much money in the plot. If I see how the yanks make deer foodplots with atv.

I do not mean to be rude or offensive in any way but look at what others (India, United States, Eastern Europe etc) are doing who have been dealing with such hot and dry summers for far longer than we have.

I think your right many livestock farmers are putting winter cover crops but it's really summer ones we need.

 

[Boso]

Sounds like a great plan, any photos?

I am interested in establishing an area of high cover summer annuals for grazing, but not sure how to establish into existing grass sward. Spray off and Direct Drill?

Pics from june and july (15 or about) atm it's much taller but also more mature.

In the deer food plot youtube films I see a lot of spray use and broadcasting seed. However spraying isn't my thing. I'm going to graze this, broadcast the winter crop in there, and mow/bushhog what the sheep leave behind to hopefully kill it and cover the seeds. After that I'll probably use a cambridge roll or something like it to push the seeds in somewhat.

You could actually grow something that can be grazed or if not needed can be turned into silage or hay (sudan gras hay).

The weeds in the pictures are because the field has been neglected for 4-5 years and no sprays allowed. I hope to be able to smother them next year with maybe a crop of buckwheat.

 

[som farmer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558772990921347075

greg judy has done another vid on james farm, looking at the sheep, hope he does a few more !

Finished our 10 acres s barley today, the dd bit did 2.5t/ac, and a tad over 4 x 6stringers of straw acre, pretty well the same as the min-til bit. Surprising really, as the min-til looked better all the way through. I reckon its all about ground cover,

the maize agrees, the stubble is the dd barley.

 

[som farmer]

I know this is me reposting and will not help you guys now, however it might help you next year.
I'm in the Netherlands, just like in the uk no serious rainfall since febr/march and only freaky summers since 2018. Groundwater aquafers (or how you call it) have not been back to normal since '18.

Last year we had a months worth of rainfall in 24h, actually flooding parts of Belgium, Germany and the province where I live and killing hundreds in our tri-border region.

With unpredictable rainfall and dry summers I think every grazing operation should invest in or organize a summer slump cover crop. My pastures and fields look just like yours.
Arable farmers are afraid of loosing potatoes, beets, corn looks awfull. For me as a sheep only enterprise with on average 100-120 days rest the moment has come that normally I would have to go back much sooner or start feeding hay.
However I have a 6-7 acre (3 ha) cover crop plot. Sudan gras, forage rape, sunflowers, vetches etc(25 different species and far to expensive).
Seeded in may, one rainspell got it going, due to the cover soil is cool and it kept growing, now 1.5-3m tall. Without fert on very sandy heather like soil.
Now it will feed my sheep for a month to six weeks.

I invested far to much money in the plot. If I see how the yanks make deer foodplots with atv.

I do not mean to be rude or offensive in any way but look at what others (India, United States, Eastern Europe etc) are doing who have been dealing with such hot and dry summers for far longer than we have.

you are not being rude,
we have to farm, for what the weather gives us, rain wise, not a lot, and mostly to heavy when it does, which runs off.
We need grazing, and cutting grass, in the summer, if we don't get the rain, we suffer.
we have been double cropping, or 3 in 2 years, some of our better grounds.
double cropping rye/maize, its possible to get 30 ton fresh weight acre. Winter fodder bulk is the idea, leaving more grass acreage for grazing.
But, we could do with a summer grazing crop, for a dry time, traditionally used to grow forage rape, but weed control is a problem.
lt is only by sharing ideas, can we learn, this thread is rather different to others !

 

[Poorbuthappy]

but in fairness/ bit of balance is that there is Absolutely no fire risk on that ground now, and that is a bigger immediate lesson to learn about (as far as i can what with all the fires there are /have been around the country ) than moisture conservation it could be argued.

Take your point but does it need to be deep cultivation to achieve that? Lots of vids of creating fire breaks in actual full crops just with discs. Surely just a bit of stubble wouldn't take much to negate the risk, where there is one?

What do they do where moisture conservation and fire really are major issues @Farmer Roy ?

 

[Bury the Trash]

Take your point but does it need to be deep cultivation to achieve that? Lots of vids of creating fire breaks in actual full crops just with discs. Surely just a bit of stubble wouldn't take much to negate the risk, where there is one?

What do they do where moisture conservation and fire really are major issues @Farmer Roy ?

tbh im not really interested ,got enough challenges of my own but if i were , i plough no deeper than 160mm and more often near 125mm i don't have discs and i wont be spending anymoney on a set ,dont have a sumo or 250hp tractor either .
nor any day soon or any other machinery either wrong time for that imo .

Thing about maturity is,is not needing to follow trends or what others are doing or saying .

been worried though i must say here and there about fire breaking out ,had a tractor fire a month ago in a green grass filed but in the last week or so, the Most risky fields weve got are thos with longer dried out grass in at, one near a housing estate couldve been mown for hay but ive been scared to go near it with the mower as theres a few stones there and i dont want to be responsible for a major incident , wack a load of weaned ewes in there in a day or 2 ,it means ive saved deisal also at pound a litre ,and already have enough hay and silage .
All grass here now arable farming is out for now cant say i miss it either , thought i would but no. its not pulling the farm nearly as much , grass and stock farming is much more balanced .

happy days .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I know this is me reposting and will not help you guys now, however it might help you next year.
I'm in the Netherlands, just like in the uk no serious rainfall since febr/march and only freaky summers since 2018. Groundwater aquafers (or how you call it) have not been back to normal since '18.

Last year we had a months worth of rainfall in 24h, actually flooding parts of Belgium, Germany and the province where I live and killing hundreds in our tri-border region.

With unpredictable rainfall and dry summers I think every grazing operation should invest in or organize a summer slump cover crop. My pastures and fields look just like yours.
Arable farmers are afraid of loosing potatoes, beets, corn looks awfull. For me as a sheep only enterprise with on average 100-120 days rest the moment has come that normally I would have to go back much sooner or start feeding hay.
However I have a 6-7 acre (3 ha) cover crop plot. Sudan gras, forage rape, sunflowers, vetches etc(25 different species and far to expensive).
Seeded in may, one rainspell got it going, due to the cover soil is cool and it kept growing, now 1.5-3m tall. Without fert on very sandy heather like soil.
Now it will feed my sheep for a month to six weeks.

I invested far to much money in the plot. If I see how the yanks make deer foodplots with atv.

I do not mean to be rude or offensive in any way but look at what others (India, United States, Eastern Europe etc) are doing who have been dealing with such hot and dry summers for far longer than we have.

I think a "main ingredient" for want of a better term, is in honesty

Knowing that you "invested too much money" into a covercrop is a great place to be, you know what can be trimmed and have a number to work from. You might do as well with 4 species as 25+ but at least you now have a starting point

I think your right many livestock farmers are putting winter cover crops but it's really summer ones we need.

This is what I'm arriving at too - even if the main deficit turns out to be over winter, doing the "hard yards" during long warm summer days is a lot more enjoyable than winter.

Whether it's carting feed across the farm with a tractor or stripgrazing off a cover crop or even just subdividing paddocks with fences to slow down the grazing, 'you know it's coming'

 

[Farmer Roy]

Take your point but does it need to be deep cultivation to achieve that? Lots of vids of creating fire breaks in actual full crops just with discs. Surely just a bit of stubble wouldn't take much to negate the risk, where there is one?

What do they do where moisture conservation and fire really are major issues @Farmer Roy ?

we leave as MUCH straw & stubble the surface as we can.
If people put in firebreaks, it’s just with a set of discs or cultivator

I personally know of only a handful of headers ( combines ) that have burnt in something like 40 years of farming here.
Have NEVER heard of a zero till stubble paddock catching fire unless there already was a fire, there was a machine failure, or somebody lit it up

our summer temps get much higher & our humidity a lot lower, for a lot longer, than any in the UK are likely to experience

dunno why you get so many combine fires in the UK, it’s not like you’re harvesting chickpeas ( lots of dust & static electricity which sparks fires on vertical body panels ) in over 40 C heat at 5 % humidity . . .

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

dunno why you get so many combine fires in the UK, it’s not like you’re harvesting chickpeas ( lots of dust & static electricity which sparks fires on vertical body panels ) in over 40 C heat at 5 % humidity . . .

Because there isn't a culture here or cleaning all the chaff off combines regularly. Many have large build-ups of combustible material in various nooks and crannies......

We are going to have to become much more fire aware.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Because there isn't a culture here or cleaning all the chaff off combines regularly. Many have large build-ups of combustible material in various nooks and crannies......

We are going to have to become much more fire aware.

everyone who owns a header ( combine ) or cotton picker here also has an industrial / roadworks type air compressor, for blowing machines down. They are the Australian version of everyone on TFF having pressure washers . . .

I read TFF posts about how people use a leaf blower to blow down headers ( combines ) . . .
Nah

headers ( combines ) & pickers get blown down EVERY day ( & we harvest / pick a lot of crops during autumn & winter ), the entire machine

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

everyone who owns a header ( combine ) or cotton picker here also has an industrial / roadworks type air compressor, for blowing machines down. They are the Australian version of everyone on TFF having pressure washers . . .

I read TFF posts about how people use a leaf blower to blow down headers ( combines ) . . .
Nah

headers ( combines ) & pickers get blown down EVERY day ( & we harvest / pick a lot of crops during autumn & winter ), the entire machine

There's your answer then.....

Many here don't even blow down before putting away at the end of harvest in my experience!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

If I set fire to my house, then I don't need to worry about it accidentally going on fire later on?

 

[Farmer Roy]

I will also say, a lot of our fields can be bigger than most UK farms & aren’t broken up into 2 ha blocks with a green hedge around them . . .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I will also say, a lot of our fields can be bigger than most UK farms & aren’t broken up into 2 ha blocks with a green hedge around them . . .

I am so grateful not to have 2ha paddocks anymore, practically the worst size possible on our acreage. Realistically for effective machinery use they want to be 4-5ha, and for effective grazing 1ha is quite a large area to graze at one time.

 

[Henarar]

I am so grateful not to have 2ha paddocks anymore, practically the worst size possible on our acreage. Realistically for effective machinery use they want to be 4-5ha, and for effective grazing 1ha is quite a large area to graze at one time.

not much we can do about it