The Ineos Grenadier thread

Michael S

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Matching Green
I have my name on an early order place for a Grenadier. Unfortunately they have engineered it so well the kerb weight is 2.65-2.80t so the payload is well under a tonne which means the 5 seaters aren't VAT reclaimable unless you are brave or rich - I have two friends that run full fat Range Rovers and reclaim the VAT on the basis that they only use them for business use. I guess they can afford better accountants and lawyers than me. My own accountants think the position is undefendable even if you can offer up several privately owned cars in mitigation. So given two seats aren't enough for me I shall not be buying one now even though it looks an impressive vehicle.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I have my name on an early order place for a Grenadier. Unfortunately they have engineered it so well the kerb weight is 2.65-2.80t so the payload is well under a tonne which means the 5 seaters aren't VAT reclaimable unless you are brave or rich - I have two friends that run full fat Range Rovers and reclaim the VAT on the basis that they only use them for business use. I guess they can afford better accountants and lawyers than me. My own accountants think the position is undefendable even if you can offer up several privately owned cars in mitigation. So given two seats aren't enough for me I shall not be buying one now even though it looks an impressive vehicle.
If they make a double cab pickup they had better make sure it has a ton and a bit payload or it will be dead in the water. It MUST be classed as a commercial vehicle for any prospective business buyer in the vast number of countries that have such tax rules if they want to succeed. They surely know this as does every other such vehicle manufacturer.
 

JP1

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yet another thread where we all seem to be losing the plot. Yes the old model Defender wasn't great on impact passive safety etc, you had to stick your arm out the window and it wasn't great for long distances BUT it tows, it was cheap to buy (Hard Top 90 £17,500 + VAT before discount when they stopped) , cheap to maintain and does all that a farmer really needs on a farm and was British built

Now everyone seemingly wants to do huge mileages, auto and criticises every drive train and aspect of every alternative

I think folks have lost their way as much as the manufacturers
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I don’t understand why the dirt-cheap and crude exterior door hinges are fitted to modern vehicles. They are prone to excessive dirt and moisture ingress and the resultant wear or seizure. They are not a feature of either rugged ability or quality construction, only of cheap 1940’s design and build quality where modern machine tools were at a premium and body gaps were massive and variable and people really didn’t know better.
 
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Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
What's the mpg of these behemoths?
With the same engine family but an earlier version mated to a six speed automatic, my 2004 Range Rover averaged 25mpg and could achieve 30 on a long journey. I suspect that the Ineos, even with a modern Adblue engine and eight speed, will not better those figures. If used as I use my pickups over the years, none have varied much from 26 on a long unladen journey to average 18 to 20 mpg over all my mileage, depending on trailer use. These were what I got from the 110 County and Hi-Cap pickups and both the Mazda and Ford engine’d Rangers. My Land Cruiser also averaged no more than 20mpg although could manage 24 if driven carefully. That had the 4.2 turbo intercooler electronic injection diesel of 200hp and 400Nm. Four speed auto.

To put that in monetary terms, even after claiming the VAT back on all the fuel [commercial vehicle], my Ranger costs on average 36 pence per mile in fuel alone. So 12000 miles would cost £4400 even without VAT for fuel alone. Mine actually averages 10,000 miles annually so £3600 at today’s fuel price. It’s horrendous when it’s worked out! To be realistic it will costs between 8000 and £10,000 per year to run a Grenadier for an owner driver at today’s cost plus 350 hours for the driver if paid labour at £12/hour, so another £4000 on top.
 

Michael S

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Matching Green
If they make a double cab pickup they had better make sure it has a ton and a bit payload or it will be dead in the water. It MUST be classed as a commercial vehicle for any prospective business buyer in the vast number of countries that have such tax rules if they want to succeed. They surely know this as does every other such vehicle manufacturer.
I spoke to them today at LAMMA and they said that they hadn't really considered the commercial market in development, so sadly it sounds like it will remain more in the category of rich man's toy than working vehicle. Interestingly I had read a military equipment blog which said that they were most likely to fail there due to the high kerb weight although for military applications they might remove items like door bars to reduce kerb weight.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I spoke to them today at LAMMA and they said that they hadn't really considered the commercial market in development, so sadly it sounds like it will remain more in the category of rich man's toy than working vehicle. Interestingly I had read a military equipment blog which said that they were most likely to fail there due to the high kerb weight although for military applications they might remove items like door bars to reduce kerb weight.
If so they are destined to fail. Unless they can sell to public utilities, farmers, foresters and VAT registered traders while being tax efficient, they are destined to sell at about the same numbers as the Mercedes G-Class, but the G is viable because its selling price is around double that of the Grenadier.
It’s not the type of vehicle most people would consider just to show themselves up as being daft prats with more money than sense while ferrying their kids to school and back daily.
 

Bloders

Member
Location
Ruabon
To put that in monetary terms, even after claiming the VAT back on all the fuel [commercial vehicle], my Ranger costs on average 36 pence per mile in fuel alone. So 12000 miles would cost £4400 even without VAT for fuel alone. Mine actually averages 10,000 miles annually so £3600 at today’s fuel price. It’s horrendous when it’s worked out! To be realistic it will costs between 8000 and £10,000 per year to run a Grenadier for an owner driver at today’s cost plus 350 hours for the driver if paid labour at £12/hour, so another £4000 on top.
This puts it into perspective for all those tarmac farmers amongst us. Sending sheep and cattle miles away for grazing, B&B etc. The costs very quickly mount up for the transport. I think some people dont realise how quickly in fact
 

Still Farming

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South Wales UK
I spoke to them today at LAMMA and they said that they hadn't really considered the commercial market in development, so sadly it sounds like it will remain more in the category of rich man's toy than working vehicle. Interestingly I had read a military equipment blog which said that they were most likely to fail there due to the high kerb weight although for military applications they might remove items like door bars to reduce kerb weight.
Why be in a commercial Agricultural business show then???
 

Bloders

Member
Location
Ruabon
Yet another thread where we all seem to be losing the plot. Yes the old model Defender wasn't great on impact passive safety etc, you had to stick your arm out the window and it wasn't great for long distances BUT it tows, it was cheap to buy (Hard Top 90 £17,500 + VAT before discount when they stopped) , cheap to maintain and does all that a farmer really needs on a farm and was British built

Now everyone seemingly wants to do huge mileages, auto and criticises every drive train and aspect of every alternative

I think folks have lost their way as much as the manufacturers
agree.
people say its no good for farmers at that price etc.
if you want a 20K truck, go buy one, there are several about, called pickups!

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" - just because it looks a bit like an old defender, and the guy behind it says its a bit like the old defender, doesnt mean its meant for the old defender audience!!
imo its direct competetion with the new defender, which i suspect is a great truck, if its in the correct price brakcet for what your after.

Its not a farm truck as we all imagine it.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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