Inexperienced farm worker wage

[ollie989898]

I was talking to someone last night, in the UK who said their step daughter had applied for a job at KFC. She's only 17 and he said the pay rate was 4 pound 50 an hour?
Can't decide if he's having me on or not?

Below 18 the minimum wage is very very different to that in adults.

To be honest, there needs to be a national living wage in the UK. I know care staff that are on minimum wage and all they do is personal care for elderly people. I mean ffs, what is wrong with society if we can't pay people who look after our oldest and most vulnerable people a realistic wage?

 

[Overby]

Some office work, pub jobs. Just about to finish a psych degree

A psych degree will be a godsend if you encounter some of the apron string tied loons in this industry of ours!

Your education proves a level of diligence amd aptitude, maybe look at somewhere where you can hopefully learn the management side of things too?

 

[D14]

This kind of leads onto my next question. Is there much call for staff who, initially at least, are just there to do the very basic, 'dirty' jobs? Because even a job like that would be useful for now just to get my foot in the door and to learn what it's actually like on a working farm.

Without being condescending because I am not, but there is a massive difference between for example hovering out the grain store to somebody going subsoiling. For example I could sit with you for 3 hours on a subsoiler showing you how it works. After 30 mins you'll be thinking why is he still here as this job is easy. Then without you knowing you loose a point off the bottom of the leg and don't notice and carry on all day, by which time you have ruined a £250 leg and if its a 3 leg machine have not subsoiled 1/3 of the area you have covered because the point fell off. So the point is that farm work is intensive because you need to be on the ball checking constantly what you are doing is being done properly. In that instance you've probably burnt £250 worth of fuel and still expect to be paid your £120 assuming 10 hours at £12/hour so thats £620 spent and only got 2/3 of the what I wanted to doing.
So the next day do I send you back out into the same field with the repair leg and you do it all again to get the 1/3 you missed resulting it even more cost?

People that come to work on farms thinking its an easy life being paid to sit on your arse with the occasional bit of manual labour, are the ones that don't last and fail.

 

[Strangelybrown]

A psych degree will be a godsend if you encounter some of the apron string tied loons in this industry of ours!

Your education proves a level of diligence amd aptitude, maybe look at somewhere where you can hopefully learn the management side of things too?

Yeah farm management is something I've looked into before (I actually posted a thread about it on here not long ago) as it seems the ideal oppourtunity to use my degree to gain further agricultural qualifications, and also allows someone like me, from a non farming background, a chance to run a farm but without having to somehow find a serious amount of capital to buy my own.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

Your education proves a level of diligence and aptitude, maybe look at somewhere where you can hopefully learn the management side of things too?

Don't forget that Agriculture includes a multitude of associated roles that are interesting and rewarding, but come without the attached risks of physically growing crops and rearing animals.

Some of these other roles are quite hands-on and practical (and don't involve trying to sell things to farmers).

Not everyone who earns a wage from agriculture is a farmer.

 

[Classichay]

Without being condescending because I am not, but there is a massive difference between for example hovering out the grain store to somebody going subsoiling. For example I could sit with you for 3 hours on a subsoiler showing you how it works. After 30 mins you'll be thinking why is he still here as this job is easy. Then without you knowing you loose a point off the bottom of the leg and don't notice and carry on all day, by which time you have ruined a £250 leg and if its a 3 leg machine have not subsoiled 1/3 of the area you have covered because the point fell off. So the point is that farm work is intensive because you need to be on the ball checking constantly what you are doing is being done properly. In that instance you've probably burnt £250 worth of fuel and still expect to be paid your £120 assuming 10 hours at £12/hour so thats £620 spent and only got 2/3 of the what I wanted to doing.
So the next day do I send you back out into the same field with the repair leg and you do it all again to get the 1/3 you missed resulting it even more cost?

People that come to work on farms thinking its an easy life being paid to sit on your arse with the occasional bit of manual labour, are the ones that don't last and fail.

i agree it’s the small things that the people who move in don’t realise cost money like the lynch pin fairy or the tubes of grease lost in the field. They may say it’s not much but over a year it adds up. It’s the time you invest in training them on jobs to how you’d expect it and they just bash on and do as they please. I think Snapchat and faceache have a lot to blame for this it’s funny to share photos on these platforms of things broken or stuck.

 

[Will 1594]

This kind of leads onto my next question. Is there much call for staff who, initially at least, are just there to do the very basic, 'dirty' jobs? Because even a job like that would be useful for now just to get my foot in the door and to learn what it's actually like on a working farm.

If you want a shitty job go with a cleaning outfit , blowing down poultry sheds and washing out ,
or go catching
or maybe outdoor pig place ,

 

[Scholsey]

If you want a shitty job go with a cleaning outfit , blowing down poultry sheds and washing out ,
or go catching
or maybe outdoor pig place ,

Poultry might be a good area to go into if starting from complete scratch whilst needing a competitive salary with hours to suit family life. Assistant on a big unit with possibility of working up to a site manager.

 

[onesiedale]

Without being condescending because I am not, but there is a massive difference between for example hovering out the grain store to somebody going subsoiling. For example I could sit with you for 3 hours on a subsoiler showing you how it works. After 30 mins you'll be thinking why is he still here as this job is easy. Then without you knowing you loose a point off the bottom of the leg and don't notice and carry on all day, by which time you have ruined a £250 leg and if its a 3 leg machine have not subsoiled 1/3 of the area you have covered because the point fell off. So the point is that farm work is intensive because you need to be on the ball checking constantly what you are doing is being done properly. In that instance you've probably burnt £250 worth of fuel and still expect to be paid your £120 assuming 10 hours at £12/hour so thats £620 spent and only got 2/3 of the what I wanted to doing.
So the next day do I send you back out into the same field with the repair leg and you do it all again to get the 1/3 you missed resulting it even more cost?

People that come to work on farms thinking its an easy life being paid to sit on your arse with the occasional bit of manual labour, are the ones that don't last and fail.

...and it does happen. Young lad was with us and he was rolling in grass seed. 25 acres, flat, what could possibly go wrong???
Hit the bearing of the Cambridge roll on a boulder in the headland hedge and subsequently lost every ring off the roller across the rest of the field.

 

[D14]

...and it does happen. Young lad was with us and he was rolling in grass seed. 25 acres, flat, what could possibly go wrong???
Hit the bearing of the Cambridge roll on a boulder in the headland hedge and subsequently lost every ring off the roller across the rest of the field.

Thats the perfect example and shows zero common sense. Some people can't do farm work irrelevant of training I am afraid. Years ago we had a lad who was power harrowing stubble. Showed him and left him to it. Went back a couple of hours later to check and the slip clutch had gone as he'd speeded up and he'd dragged it for 2 hours solid cutting slits in the ground which he could not tell the difference between what had been power harrowed properly and what hadn't. He left us and went elsewhere with an honest reference from me. A few days later I had a call from his new employer who'd let him go because he'd gone ploughing and didn't turn the plough over once in a 20 acre field, even though somebody had sat with him for an hour before leaving him to it.

 

[nick...]

We had a student here probably 30 years Ago who helped with the pigs.can remember one day my dad asking him to put a large amount of fencing posts behind where the dexta tractor stood in the shed.dad said I’ll move tractor out of shed so you got plenty of room.left him too it and when we returned he had put the posts behind the tractor which was in the yard.he did not stay long
nick...

 

[Princess Pooper]

Below 18 the minimum wage is very very different to that in adults.

To be honest, there needs to be a national living wage in the UK. I know care staff that are on minimum wage and all they do is personal care for elderly people. I mean ffs, what is wrong with society if we can't pay people who look after our oldest and most vulnerable people a realistic wage?

There is. Everyone above 25 should get it now. From 1 April everyone over the age of 23 must be paid the National Living Wage. https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates.

 

[Princess Pooper]

There is. Everyone above 25 should get it now. From 1 April everyone over the age of 23 must be paid the National Living Wage. https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates.

And it is for this reason that I couldn't believe it when I saw a recent tweet advertising a full time herdsman post at £10-£12/hour depending on experience (no accommodation). Do they not realise that the minimum is basically £9 so a properly qualified/experienced herdsman? Even their upper rate of £12? Are they taking the P*ss?

 

[Classichay]

And it is for this reason that I couldn't believe it when I saw a recent tweet advertising a full time herdsman post at £10-£12/hour depending on experience (no accommodation). Do they not realise that the minimum is basically £9 so a properly qualified/experienced herdsman? Even their upper rate of £12? Are they taking the P*ss?

ive a friend who drives a mower for the council for 16.00 an hour so why the f would you want to deal with a usually naggy employer for that rate?

 

[CopperBeech]

Paying new starters looking for experience is a hard one .......

Currently with the whole COVID thing, it’s an employers market, lots are unemployed.

I recently had a lass ring me up, youngster, looking to come lambing and gain more experience of a progressive outdoor system etc. Great. But wanted to be paid, which is fine, but at £150 a day, over a grand a week.......... I can live without. I don’t overly need the extra help, so no experience for her. No doubt she may find a position cleaning out pens etc indoors.

I see it a lot, it’s hard to justify paying someone with little experience when there are experienced folk out there and the cost difference if marginal. No experience at all but good attitude .... £12-15 an hour apparently. Experienced man with some of own kit, dogs, truck etc ..... £15/16. You can see the issue.....

We are all here to earn / make money so it’s a tough one.

 

[unlacedgecko]

And it is for this reason that I couldn't believe it when I saw a recent tweet advertising a full time herdsman post at £10-£12/hour depending on experience (no accommodation). Do they not realise that the minimum is basically £9 so a properly qualified/experienced herdsman? Even their upper rate of £12? Are they taking the P*ss?

It's even better when the ad specifies its a self employed position.

IR 35 comes into force in the private sector next month. Could be lots of big tax/NI bills heading to these employers shortly.

 

[Highland Mule]

It's even better when the ad specifies its a self employed position.

IR 35 comes into force in the private sector next month. Could be lots of big tax/NI bills heading to these employers shortly.

Can't imagine there will be too many farm workers caught by IR35 - isn't it more applicable to IT contractors and the likes who are disguising employment but working through Ltd Co. ?

 

[unlacedgecko]

I suppose all these expecting the OP to work for less than minimum wage for months/years sprang from the womb fully trained and experienced?

This sort of gate keeping does the industry a disservice and will only exacerbate the current labor shortage.

@Strangelybrown back in the autumn, following a Facebook and, I gave a girl a week's work experience. I provided accommodation and food, but no pay. She was 23 and has recently qualified as a speech and language therapist.

Great girl and left with a generic reference. A couple of weeks later I was pleased to take a phone call from a prospective employer. She's now a dairy assistant on a large sorting block herd. Her package includes sole occupancy accommodation and her salary exceeds £20,000.

Opportunities exist for those that look. Don't be dispirited and don't sell yourself short.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Can't imagine there will be too many farm workers caught by IR35 - isn't it more applicable to IT contractors and the likes who are disguising employment but working through Ltd Co. ?

It's targeting those in disguised employment. The test is available online, but includes ltd and sole traders.

I don't think many "self employed" farm workers provide their own tools or bear financial risk?

Obviously I don't mean those that do actually run a business working for multiple customers. More those who are employed by one customer year round, but are told they're self employed to save the employer paying sick pay, NI, holiday pay etc.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Paying new starters looking for experience is a hard one .......

Currently with the whole COVID thing, it’s an employers market, lots are unemployed.

I recently had a lass ring me up, youngster, looking to come lambing and gain more experience of a progressive outdoor system etc. Great. But wanted to be paid, which is fine, but at £150 a day, over a grand a week.......... I can live without. I don’t overly need the extra help, so no experience for her. No doubt she may find a position cleaning out pens etc indoors.

I see it a lot, it’s hard to justify paying someone with little experience when there are experienced folk out there and the cost difference if marginal. No experience at all but good attitude .... £12-15 an hour apparently. Experienced man with some of own kit, dogs, truck etc ..... £15/16. You can see the issue.....

We are all here to earn / make money so it’s a tough one.

I agree, there is a difference between someone wanting to come and work for you - usually very short term or very part time, basically because they want experience. You want to help them but you don't actually need them and it often actually increases your workload. I would include vet students in this, and no we don't pay them. One of the reasons we don't employ anyone outside of the family - even though the farm would be better maintained and tidier if we did - is that we can't afford to pay them the proper wage, so we don't insult them/break the law by paying someone less.

Too many farmers - especially dairy farmers, up their cow numbers, to keep up with the Jones/because their consultant tells them to - and then need more labour (partly because of the 24/7 nature of the job), but then can't pay them properly.