Injector Pump, B250

[averageguy54]

While searching for a new block for my B275 I ran across a pretty good deal on a B250. The complete tractor for 350 pounds. The motor turns over but the pump is off it and it needs a starter. tires are decent and the tin is in good shape. I have been told that using that block on my tractor is doable but it involves a lot of extra work. I was thinking that maybe it would be better if I got it running and sold it instead. I would be able to get around $2000 to $2500 for it in running condition.

But, if I have to pay someone to rebuild the pump there's little chance of profit. How hard would it be to rebuild by oneself. Does it need special tools? Seems that I recall someone talking about it in one of my other threads, but i'm not sure.

 

[SuperTwo]

You would need the proper equipment to test that it is working correctly. Is it a Bosch or a CAV pump?

 

[averageguy54]

It's an in-line CAV.

 

[X344chap]

Why do you think it needs a rebuild? Take plate off the side and make sure that the pistons are all lubed and free - then fit it and try it. Btw - its self lubricating with diesel fuel. Seals are gone in mine and theres a catch can under the pigtail to catch excess diesel - but it still starts and runs fine.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Why do you think it needs a rebuild? Take plate off the side and make sure that the pistons are all lubed and free - then fit it and try it. Btw - its self lubricating with diesel fuel. Seals are gone in mine and theres a catch can under the pigtail to catch excess diesel - but it still starts and runs fine.

They have oil in them for lubrication not diesel, the pigtail is to let diesel out when the seals go, and indicate leaking seals

 

[X344chap]

They have oil in them for lubrication not diesel, the pigtail is to let diesel out when the seals go, and indicate leaking seals

Thanks for clarifying this - i did see that earlier BPE pumps had a dipstick and filler for oil - but the later ones didnt? How do you fill and check the oil level in the later pumps?

 

[2wheels]

filling and level plugs?

 

[X344chap]

filling and level plugs?

i didnt remember seeing any - will check later on.

 

[2wheels]

i didnt remember seeing any - will check later on.

i am thinking of the simms inline pumps so maybe doesn't apply to cav.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

i am thinking of the simms inline pumps so maybe doesn't apply to cav.

Yes I am thinking the same, sure I was once told all inline pumps had oil in for lubrication, and in all honesty I have no first hand experience of a cav

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Thanks for clarifying this - i did see that earlier BPE pumps had a dipstick and filler for oil - but the later ones didnt? How do you fill and check the oil level in the later pumps?

Not sure, but the governor will need lubrication of some sort cannot see that being diesel

 

[averageguy54]

I don't know that it needs a rebuild. I know that the tractor wouldn't start for them and they removed the pump, as well as burned out the starter. It might just be that the glow plugs were the problem and that is the first thing I would repair along with a starter.

My worry is that if that doesn't get it running then the pump might need doing. If I have to pay someone to do the pump, there won't be any profit in the deal. That's all. If i can do a refurbishment myself, okay, I'll give it a try.

 

[X344chap]

i am thinking of the simms inline pumps so maybe doesn't apply to cav.

Yes - the simms pump like on the early leylands (up to the 255) has a simms minimec that you fill with engine oil.

 

[X344chap]

I don't know that it needs a rebuild. I know that the tractor wouldn't start for them and they removed the pump, as well as burned out the starter. It might just be that the glow plugs were the problem and that is the first thing I would repair along with a starter.

My worry is that if that doesn't get it running then the pump might need doing. If I have to pay someone to do the pump, there won't be any profit in the deal. That's all. If i can do a refurbishment myself, okay, I'll give it a try.

if you are getting it for £350 then a £250 pump overhaul still leaves plenty of money in it. Plenty of videos showing how to service the pump. I've not done the BPE yet - but i have done a couple of CAV DPA rotary pumps and they are quite straightforward if you download the manual and are not fiddling with the metering - which you need a test rig to set (or measuring cylinders)

Tbh i'd refit the pump, stick the starter from your 275 in it, diagnose the fault and take it from there - it could be something silly like the tank filter blocked.

 

[averageguy54]

if you are getting it for £350 then a £250 pump overhaul still leaves plenty of money in it. Plenty of videos showing how to service the pump. I've not done the BPE yet - but i have done a couple of CAV DPA rotary pumps and they are quite straightforward if you download the manual and are not fiddling with the metering - which you need a test rig to set (or measuring cylinders)

Tbh i'd refit the pump, stick the starter from your 275 in it, diagnose the fault and take it from there - it could be something silly like the tank filter blocked.

I'm thinking like you, that it's probably nothing serious. Over here getting a pump rebuilt by a shop is $1200 +VAT. If I could ship one over and back would be cheaper, but I would have to find someone to do it.
I can't imagine why I would have to fiddle with the metering. I would think it would be okay except for maybe being gummed up from sitting but a cleaner should fix that.

 

[Mur Huwcun]

For just an hours sake pop the pump back on, set of 12v plugs and see what happens. Timing is easy as the three holes are eccentric so pump will only bolt to gear in one of the three positions. Have you got the pointer plate with it aswell? Set it up at around 16 degree BTDC and then experiment.

I’ve got a 250 pump,with a specialist at the moment, it’s been there since mid December. He just can’t find a supplier with elements for one at the moment. I did strip and replace springs in another one a few years ago. There’s nothing technical about them but you really need a test bench to set each element up. I just didn’t touch the rack position clamps when doing the springs. I also fitted a 250 block in a 354 many moons ago, it just needs the hole for the lift pump drilled out and two holes drilled and tapped. I used a lift pump gasket as a template. The cam had the lobe on but you will need your original crank as a single plate clutch crankshaft will be a different flange for flywheel

Pump photos as not very good quality sorry

 

[averageguy54]

For just an hours sake pop the pump back on, set of 12v plugs and see what happens. Timing is easy as the three holes are eccentric so pump will only bolt to gear in one of the three positions. Have you got the pointer plate with it aswell? Set it up at around 16 degree BTDC and then experiment.

I’ve got a 250 pump,with a specialist at the moment, it’s been there since mid December. He just can’t find a supplier with elements for one at the moment. I did strip and replace springs in another one a few years ago. There’s nothing technical about them but you really need a test bench to set each element up. I just didn’t touch the rack position clamps when doing the springs. I also fitted a 250 block in a 354 many moons ago, it just needs the hole for the lift pump drilled out and two holes drilled and tapped. I used a lift pump gasket as a template. The cam had the lobe on but you will need your original crank as a single plate clutch crankshaft will be a different flange for flywheel

Pump photos as not very good quality sorry

Photos are decent enough for me. Thanks for them. I'm suspecting that it sat for a while and got progressively harder to start. I'm leaning toward the pump not really being the problem. as you said a set of 12V plugs will probably work wonders. I'm thinking I might see about soaking the pump down with something to clean out dried up diesel as well, before trying to start it. That's assuming they still have the parts. If they don't have the parts, i don't think I'll bother with it. I'll just keep looking for now.
I'm not being too keen on tearing down 2 engines to make 1, to be honest. If I have to, then sobeit, but I like to think that would be a last resort for now anyway. lol.

 

[averageguy54]

Well, I think a wrench has been thrown in the works!. talking to the lad last evening about the pump, see if he can locate it. It's not with the tractor. He says he thinks they told him they had to do some welding on it!!!!!! He's going to see if he can track it down, I'm almost afraid to look!!

 

[X344chap]

Use the 250 as a source of spares for your 275....

never did ask why you needed a new block for your 275 - frost cracked behind the injection pump by any chance?

 

[averageguy54]

Yup, Got a welded up crack about 8" long there.I take it that was a fairly common occurrence then. Was thinking serious about rebuilding the old girl as she's putting antifreeze into the oil sump. There's a chance that retorquing the head could tear the crack open again so I thought it better to find a donor. It's still a fair amount of work using that block, tearing down 2 motors to make one, but..... might be best in the long run. The thought of fixing that one up and selling it on is gone out the window, I think.