Innovis Ram Sale

[Nithsdale]

Just saw advertised that H&H Carlisle are holding an Innovis ram sale next Thursday.
Just for a look, I think I'll head down and see how the experts breed their sheep.

I've been on Innovis website but not a great deal of information, really. I know the Aberfields are a BFL-Texel composite, but what about the rest? In particular the terminal 'breeds'.

Just looking the pictures I'm guessing Texels feature heavily - but what is the Abermax, for example?...

Also, how do they run the sales. I'm guessing there will minimum price?

 

[CopperBeech]

From what I know I think abertex is Texel, abermax is Texel x Charollais, aberfield is Texel x blue face ....... can you see a theme here?

 

[cheviot53]

Various fixed prices depending on their index , then you can bid in £25 increments or put your lot number into the hat to be drawn at the fixed price . Aberfields are now a fixed breed ,not sure but the abermax may be . Will also be Suffolks or Aberblack , Highlander , Primera , Aberfield SR and Teasers

 

[Nithsdale]

Aye but... what is a Primera? What's an Aberfield SR - How does it differ to an Aberfield?...

The Aberblack is an obvious one, and atleast they just say it's a cross between NZ and UK Suffolks


How do they do it - are the tups sold in the pens, price bid on a board? I expect there's a time limit on bidding?

 

[scholland]

Aye but... what is a Primera? What's an Aberfield SR - How does it differ to an Aberfield?...

The Aberblack is an obvious one, and atleast they just say it's a cross between NZ and UK Suffolks


How do they do it - are the tups sold in the pens, price bid on a board? I expect there's a time limit on bidding?

Aberfield Sr is Aberfield x lleyn.

Primera were founded in nz (I think) by focus genetics long with highlander.

Aberblack have a little charollais in them I think.

It is all a bit mysterious!

 

[cheviot53]

Primera is open composite made of various breeds. Aberfield self replacing by adding Llyen ??




























Rams are sold in a ring , prices are in catalogue and on a computer screen . Its just like any auction

 

[Nithsdale]

It is all a bit mysterious!

Yup.

Just trying to get my head round what they actually are so that I know what I'm looking at when I go... I get they are composites which have been (or supposed to have been) stabilised. But I'd prefer to know what makes up each 'breed' so I know which ones to be most interested in.

I'm interested to see how the sale works as I've never been to a sale like this before too. Every day's a school day and I likes learning

 

[Nithsdale]

Rams are sold in a ring , prices are in catalogue and on a computer screen . Its just like any auction

Ahh. I thought they liked doing it different. Cheers

 

[John Chance]

Fixed prices, (two fixed prices depending on index ?), but if there is more than one bidder it gets a bit odd; I think that if all bidders agree, the "winner" is drawn from a hat at the fixed price; if they don't agree, it's an auction between them.

 

[ewefool]

From what I can gather the aberdale is a Texel cross Cheviot don’t know if they are also there.

 

[neilo]

From what I can gather the aberdale is a Texel cross Cheviot don’t know if they are also there.

No. They are a Texel with a hyper-prolificacy gene (Abertex are just those that didn’t carry the gene). Aber sales are leased, rather than sold.

 

[neilo]

Aberblack have a little charollais in them I think.

It is all a bit mysterious!

They do indeed.

They were originally Charollais x (UK I believe) Suffolk.

 

[neilo]

Various fixed prices depending on their index , then you can bid in £25 increments or put your lot number into the hat to be drawn at the fixed price . Aberfields are now a fixed breed ,not sure but the abermax may be . Will also be Suffolks or Aberblack , Highlander , Primera , Aberfield SR and Teasers

I’m not sure how ‘fixed’ any of those breeds are. I know they were still putting new Texel & Charollais genetics in a couple of years ago, and I thought recorded BFL blood too.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Fixed prices, (two fixed prices depending on index ?), but if there is more than one bidder it gets a bit odd; I think that if all bidders agree, the "winner" is drawn from a hat at the fixed price; if they don't agree, it's an auction between them.

This is what happened at the one I attended two years ago .

What I found puzzling was that almost everybody wanted to bid, rather than draw for the tups at their "reserve " price.

The tups, to my eyes at least, were much of a muchness, and it just looked like a lot were paid over the odds.

Good business for Innovis and that's how to make cash.

 

[M-J-G]

I'm not sure what Aberdale is, I assume they are bred from what was originally the "Inverdale" which was originally going to be a prolific Texel that was used on hill ewes to produce a more muscular mule.

A lot of these were bred on a farm beside us here, that innovis rented.
I used to do grassland contracting for them, and knew the shepherd and the site manager well.

But those sheep were way too prolific. Triplets and quads galore, with no flushing, ewes were kept so bare at mating that the tups had to be shed off and fed on lane ways every day.

To me these weren't a clean enough sheep to mate with a hill ewe, or at least not enough so to encourage anyone to be keen to buy them for that purpose.

Innovis gave up that site, and I lost touch with what was going on, but a few years later the various "Abers" started to appear.
But I'm not sure what became of the Inverdale flock, or what they came to be bred with or known as.

They sure were too hot to handle for litter size anyway.

 

[ewefool]

So the aberdale is a pure Texel

 

[neilo]

So the aberdale is a pure Texel

Pretty well. As above, originally bred from this Inverdale carrying sheep, but would be many generations of Texel now.

The idea is to put them to a hill sheep, then breed from the resultant females. They will do 200%+ all day long, on negative flushing, and from a medium sized a Texel X ewe. The prolificacy needs careful management though. @MJT would know more.

 

[Jim75]

No. They are a Texel with a hyper-prolificacy gene (Abertex are just those that didn’t carry the gene). Aber sales are leased, rather than sold.

All new to me, how does the leasing work,catch?

 

[unlacedgecko]

So the aberdale is a pure Texel

It’s a Texel that’s homozygous (2 copies) of the GD9F prolificacy gene. Each copy of the gene raises litter size by 0.6. So Aberdale x ewes should scan 0.6 higher than there mothers.

^this is complete rubbish. See my later post.

 

[Downton_shep]

This is out of the catalouge