International rough idle

[Classichay]

Ive an international 885 loader tractor ive had the head checked and pressure tested turned up one of the injector sleeves was leaking on the pressure test. Which was strange as id had Evans farm services in market drayton do them all less than 60 hours before hand? Also took the injectors out to be serviced which turned out these were also running horrifcally on the test output so i opted for these to have a full rebuild on also (had these supposedly checked too). fitted a new head gasket along with this. but the tractor seems to be sounding rough on idle, with a few revs it sounds ok . its had all new liners pistons etc approx 70 hours ago it doesn't do a huge amount of work only between spring and hay making. the rest of the time its sat parked up. Had a fitter get it all back together on the weekend as a favour to me, but it just sounds lumpy on idle im scratching my head to what it could be wrong with it to idle like this. could it be the tappets need re-doing its probably done 2 hours of just running / to check the head gasket?

 

[Classichay]

 

[Gapples]

Ive an international 885 loader tractor ive had the head checked and pressure tested turned up one of the injector sleeves was leaking on the pressure test. Which was strange as id had Evans farm services in market drayton do them all less than 60 hours before hand? Also took the injectors out to be serviced which turned out these were also running horrifcally on the test output so i opted for these to have a full rebuild on also (had these supposedly checked too). fitted a new head gasket along with this. but the tractor seems to be sounding rough on idle, with a few revs it sounds ok . its had all new liners pistons etc approx 70 hours ago it doesn't do a huge amount of work only between spring and hay making. the rest of the time its sat parked up. Had a fitter get it all back together on the weekend as a favour to me, but it just sounds lumpy on idle im scratching my head to what it could be wrong with it to idle like this. could it be the tappets need re-doing its probably done 2 hours of just running / to check the head gasket?

Did you have the valves out when, recut & lapped in when the engine was done ?
Anyway it wouldn't do any harm to re check the tappets.
Also are the injectors in the right way around ? That is leak off pipe on the rocker cover side.

Has the injection pump ever been serviced ? It could be the delivery valves not holding pressure, some of these issues are much more noticeable at tickover.

 

[essexpete]

Does it smoke when opened up from idle?

 

[Classichay]

Did you have the valves out when, recut & lapped in when the engine was done ?
Anyway it wouldn't do any harm to re check the tappets.
Also are the injectors in the right way around ? That is leak off pipe on the rocker cover side.

Has the injection pump ever been serviced ? It could be the delivery valves not holding pressure, some of these issues are much more noticeable at tickover.

I’m assuming so, I did ask them to check all the valves and seats, it’s a place which services heads. They re-did the injector sleeves as one was leaking. It’s run maybe two hours since it had the head put back on.

 

[Gapples]

I’m assuming so, I did ask them to check all the valves and seats, it’s a place which services heads. They re-did the injector sleeves as one was leaking. It’s run maybe two hours since it had the head put back on.

Ok, also what Pete is probably getting at with his question will be "is the thermostart leaking" this will cause it to smoke excessively at tickover but they usually run fine at higher rpm.

 

[jackp]

Hello, when the injectors were out were they re fitted the correct way round, leak off pipe to the rocker cover ? It does affect the spray pattern into the swirl chamber in the top of the piston if they are wrong

 

[Lofty]

Hello, when the injectors were out were they re fitted the correct way round, leak off pipe to the rocker cover ? It does affect the spray pattern into the swirl chamber in the top of the piston if they are wrong

I've fell prey to this little cockup before! Or Mr Gapples put me right on that. Yes,the leak off pipes must face the rocker cover.

 

[Flat 10]

Doesn’t sound that bad?

 

[essexpete]

Doesn’t sound that bad?

I must admit I had not listened to the video. It is a job to hear the problem from that. I reckon our 895 sounds similar on first start.

 

[Gapples]

I must admit I had not listened to the video. It is a job to hear the problem from that. I reckon our 895 sounds similar on first start.

Yeah, it just sounds like it's hunting a little bit, they do that when starting.
But it's often near impossible to diagnose noises from videos unfortunately.

 

[Classichay]

Yeah, it just sounds like it's hunting a little bit, they do that when starting.
But it's often near impossible to diagnose noises from videos unfortunately.

Hi Gapples first of all thankyou for your replies so far aswell as the other posters.

The video doesnt really do justice. I think the phrase you used "hunting" probably explains it better. just seems to surge on idle. i know these engines usually slightly off balance when idling but this sounds not very happy. With a few revs it sounds well and the rev clock doesnt flutter like some ive seen on set revs.

So far ive checked the orientation of the injectors, which have the bleed off pipes against the rocker cover.

Im having the tappets re-set on the machine as its done approx 3 hours of running. The rough idle has started after about 2 hours of running really well and didnt seem bad when it initially was put back together.

It had new fuel filters fitted to the tractor and oils etc..

Would the thermostart leaking lead to a rough idle? i have got a spare new one from an IH 574 in the workshop which i assume is the same unit.

Thanks D.

 

[X344chap]

It needs some hard work to bed everything in - 70 hours of light work since rebuild probably isn't enough. Did you retorque everything after 50 hours and maybe upset the valve gear when you did this? - if it didn't do it after the rebuild and has only just come on?

 

[Classichay]

It needs some hard work to bed everything in - 70 hours of light work since rebuild probably isn't enough. Did you retorque everything after 50 hours and maybe upset the valve gear when you did this? - if it didn't do it after the rebuild and has only just come on?

It was rebuilt last year by a mechanic who had the head pressure tested and supposedly had the injectors tested aswell. Prompted by a liner seal going porous allowing water into the oil. Which origionally prompted the rebuild of the engine. So i opted for the new liners and bearings route. The only bearings which were not changed were the mains as he said they had minimal wear as the tractor has only done 3700 hours. The first fitter we paid to have the injector sleeves replaced ( 1100.00 and head checked which weve come to find it was an invented bill and he'd centre punched it tight again with loctite and put it back together. )

We then used the tractor last year on an 8ft disc mower and did a few days of loading muck out of the heap into the rotor spreader. So its had a bit of hard work.

But we noticed after we finished second cut there was a tapping in the exhaust valve which i was told by a fitter that the exhaust valve needed reseating which he had promised to come and do never saw the guy again. So i waited a few months to get the money to one side to sort it, had a fitter friend come out and pull the head. I then took it to a cylinder head service shop who identified a leak in the injector sleeves so i had those replaced and had them service the cylinder head ( which id assume they check the seats of the valves which id hope is part of servicing the head). Re fitted the head and new head gasket. ran the tractor up for an hour off idle to check its not loosing water etc as it had sat a few weeks covered up. We had the injectors checked and were told that the output wasnt right and the spray pattern wasnt right so had these rebuilt with new nozzles and caps etc (£300 ish).
thought all was ok and we knocked the revs down after it had run for an hour and its "hunting" on idle. so far ive checked the orientation of the injectors, i'm not super confident on setting the tappets on the engine im told its 12 thou ( cold). I just dont need the tractor throwing the engine. Ive not had the injection pump serviced but ive been quoted 5-700.00 to service the pump and ive no idea on timing an injection pump.

I will try to pull the thermostart and see if thats leaking when its running in the morning.

 

[Gapples]

Hi Gapples first of all thankyou for your replies so far aswell as the other posters.

The video doesnt really do justice. I think the phrase you used "hunting" probably explains it better. just seems to surge on idle. i know these engines usually slightly off balance when idling but this sounds not very happy. With a few revs it sounds well and the rev clock doesnt flutter like some ive seen on set revs.

So far ive checked the orientation of the injectors, which have the bleed off pipes against the rocker cover.

Im having the tappets re-set on the machine as its done approx 3 hours of running. The rough idle has started after about 2 hours of running really well and didnt seem bad when it initially was put back together.

It had new fuel filters fitted to the tractor and oils etc..

Would the thermostart leaking lead to a rough idle? i have got a spare new one from an IH 574 in the workshop which i assume is the same unit.

Thanks D.

Hi
Yes a thermostart can cause poor running at idle, probably the easiest way to test it is simply to take out, re connect the fuel pipe & wire, then run the engine with it out.
It'll be fine to run like that as long as there's nothing loose that could get sucked in the hole.
If the thermostart is leaking fuel you should see it dripping, to be honest if they're leaking it'll be wet when you take it out anyway.
On the valves been done you really do need to know if they were recut & lapped in when the head was "serviced"
Sadly we all know what assumption is.
The valves themselves are easy enough to check & do, the hardest bit on these engines is putting the rocker cover back on & aligning the gasket.
12 thou is correct, I usually set them roughly, run the engine to warm it up a bit & set them accurately.

 

[X344chap]

If it starts fine, isnt smoking or using oil and the only thing is a 'niggle' about the hunting at idle - i'd just check the tappet clearance (its not super complicated but would be worthing paying for an hour of someones time) to make sure that no damage is being done and leave it alone. It will either go away or will get worse and then the problem will be easier to diagnose.

You could spend a lot of time and money chasing down a ghost like this if you aren't handy with the spanners and able to do it yourself.

 

[Zebbedee]

I have recently come across a case of tappet clearance changing eg getting loose and was traced to damaged cam followers wearing where push rod fit in,,,,,this was a fairly low housed engine as well so if tappet clearance keeps getting slack look at cam followers

 

[Gapples]

I have recently come across a case of tappet clearance changing eg getting loose and was traced to damaged cam followers wearing where push rod fit in,,,,,this was a fairly low housed engine as well so if tappet clearance keeps getting slack look at cam followers

Being as you mentioned the followers, not something I ever encountered, although I've heard of others who have, I have also seen the valves wearing into the rocker arm & the rocker arm adjuster wearing into the push rod !

 

[Zebbedee]

Being as you mentioned the followers, not something I ever encountered, although I've heard of others who have, I have also seen the valves wearing into the rocker arm & the rocker arm adjuster wearing into the push rod !

Yes a first for me on these engines a low houred 56 series tractor I assumed looking at it that follower not hardened correctly