Inverdale Gene (Aberdales)

Old Tup

Member
Not to get away from the original post but When we used to breed own mules I did just that and bought 6 BFL ewes from a farmer who was well known for breeding harder BfLs and out wintered his Leicester’s. After scanning at I think It was 5 twins and a triplet I couldn’t wait for lambing , by weaning there were 4 ewes and 3 lambs left, they couldn’t hack it on the forage system that everything else could, so why would I want to put that into a ewe . Though I will admit that they will put more frame and length into their offspring than a texel ever will .
Don’t blame the breed.....blame the management....
 

Agrivator

Member
:ROFLMAO:

No .. the other badly managed 1400 ewes that weren’t BFL cope fine every year . So I think il blame the breed cheers (y)

But no sensible shepherd expects the BFL to be hardy in any respect. If it was, it wouldn't be the most remarkable breed of all.

It will cross with any hardy hill breed, and produce crossbred females which are at least as hardy, thrifty and have a stronger constitutional will to live, than its purebred dam.

And fed as appropriate, it will be very much more productive than its purebred dam.

In fact, you can judge a shepherd by how he/she looks after such a valuable asset as a BFL. It's the goose that lays the golden egg, year after year.
 
But no sensible shepherd expects the BFL to be hardy in any respect. If it was, it wouldn't be the most remarkable breed of all.

It will cross with any hardy hill breed, and produce crossbred females which are at least as hardy, thrifty and have a stronger constitutional will to live, than its purebred dam.

And fed as appropriate, it will be very much more productive than its purebred dam.

In fact, you can judge a shepherd by how he/she looks after such a valuable asset as a BFL. It's the goose that lays the golden egg, year after year.
You don't half talk some crap!
 

Chev54

Member
To you guys suggesting Mules / BFL... been there and got the T-shirt and that’s why they aren’t here anymore.

Been thinking about this a lot more and the texel Inverdale over my cheviots just seems to make sense as it’s basically what I’m breeding at the moment just a lot more prolific fingers crossed . Good Inverdale texel x cheviot wethers to sell will be a bonus too .The Cambridge maybe won’t add the scale and shape into the Cheviots like a texel will.

@MJT may be in contact for a ram or 2 come the autumn all being well.
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
We have around 9 Aberdale tups for 800 ewes.
They have a set annual fee which declines with age, starting at £800 but they occasionally have an auction so you can bid for the better rams at a premium price above the annual fee. I try to select the tups I want and am happy to pay a sensible premium for the first year to get the best EBV's and easy lambing tups. They are free for the 5th season and the lease cost goes down every year you have them.
We have customers for all the ewe lambs we can produce now at a significant premium and are usually off the farm in August. It suits us well and a neighbour also uses the tups in an outdoor system.

The Texels they use are mostly good rams so the wether lambs finish easily and at good weights. The Aberdale Romney ewes do need managing so as not to get too many triplets or quads so it is important not to flush the ewes. 200% is normal and if you want can get to 220% plus.


Back this thread up a second.

Are you saying if I go to an Innovis 'auction' sale and buy one of their tups... I don't actually buy it - and will have to pay again the following year to keep it???


They did not make that clear at the sale at Carlisle I went to.

f**k that
 

MJT

Member
Back this thread up a second.

Are you saying if I go to an Innovis 'auction' sale and buy one of their tups... I don't actually buy it - and will have to pay again the following year to keep it???


They did not make that clear at the sale at Carlisle I went to.

fudge that

Only the Aberdales are leased every year . All others you buy it and it’s yours
 
Iirc sheep with a Gdf 9 gene will infer a 30% increase in scanning %, with none of the downsides of infertility, midget litters, etc.

Cambridge rams can be sourced tested positive for it I think, and I seem to recall @easyram1 was breeding/testing his NZ Texels for it?

Many simpler, more easily managed, options than paying a fortune to lease an Aberdale ram for a year I would think.

Totally agree with the last sentence ......
The inclusion of the Inverdale gene not only makes the ewe flock a terminal flock (not for breeding as one would in a self replacing flock) but often increases the scanning rate (hence incidence of triplets etc.) into levels beyond that desired by farmers. The 0.4 of a lamb increase in average litter size can be excessive if the crossed flock has already reached the peak of ewes twinning within a flock. Half of that rate would suit most people, therefore GDF9 is now a very useful option.
The thing with single genes is the results are manifested in the subsequent generations (except Inverdale) meaning selection by performance can be easily instigated to maintain performance.

Having been involved in the selection of sheep for export from NZ, it was good to receive the latest scanning results from @easyram1 that demonstrated that selection for breeding goals delivers the desired results. His flock of 300 NZ Texels (selected for both maternal traits and meat) scanned 198% including 4 empties. His 400 NZ Suffolks (a terminal only breed in NZ) scanned 186% and his 300 Suftex ewes (selected only for terminal traits in NZ) scanned 175%. This range matched my expectations based on the background selection policies of the flocks that contributed to the importations to the UK.

Single genes, or sometimes referred to as Major Genes can be very useful, but breeders goals are very potent. The superiority of the Texels in the example above is probably influenced by GDF9 (being present in the NZ source flocks), but many genetic causes of higher ovulation rate and maybe embryonic survival will accumulate in flocks that have specific goals of increasing lambing %.

Therefore don't consider all breeders of a breed having uniform performance.
 

Frank-the-Wool

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
Back this thread up a second.

Are you saying if I go to an Innovis 'auction' sale and buy one of their tups... I don't actually buy it - and will have to pay again the following year to keep it???


They did not make that clear at the sale at Carlisle I went to.

fudge that

This only applies to the Aberdales and not to the other terminal composites they sell.
If you don't like an Aberdale or it dies, it is not your problem.

What we do is very similar to producing a mule ewe lamb but with more genetic science and the ability to keep a highly prolific closed flock if you wish, and a much more valuable wether lamb.
I am told that BFL's tups only have a short lifespan and also can cost a significant amount!!
 

MJT

Member
You can breed inverdale to inverdale. Just have to accept 50% of ewe lambs will be non breeders.

Have a mate doing just this, checks them for tiny teets (first major sign of non breeder) and then tups all remaining ewe lambs he likes . Kills everything not in lamb at scanning. With Hogg prices as they are he has been doing pretty well with this system .
 
Whilst I don’t believe in a lot of the Innovis fads ,this can’t really be classed as smoke and mirrors , it’s a gene that actually exists , not some well sold magic idea / breed .

With regards to putting a bfl on them then a texel , I’d suggest just using the lambs inverdale ram which is just a prolific texel and miss out the BFL and all the problems it brings with it altogether
Plenty of evidence to suggest that the BFL carries an, as yet unidentified, gene very similar to the Inverdale gene (of which there are many similar genes). If this is correct it would explain the variable lambing % of BFL and especially the odd coincidence of BFL flocks with large numbers of litters and large numbers of empty ewes at the same time.
 
Iirc sheep with a Gdf 9 gene will infer a 30% increase in scanning %, with none of the downsides of infertility, midget litters, etc.

Cambridge rams can be sourced tested positive for it I think, and I seem to recall @easyram1 was breeding/testing his NZ Texels for it?

Many simpler, more easily managed, options than paying a fortune to lease an Aberdale ram for a year I would think.
We've just had a study done on our ewes of which a large number carry GDF9, Finn ewes that were carriers scanned at 5% higher than none carriers. GDF9 carrying Texel and Composite (all from 50-10% to Finn) ewes scanned at 46% higher than none carrier ewes. this would tie in with results from Norway. Likely causes of the low lift in Finn ewes is due to the presence of other fecundity genes in none GDF9 carrying ewes.
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
This only applies to the Aberdales and not to the other terminal composites they sell.
If you don't like an Aberdale or it dies, it is not your problem.

What we do is very similar to producing a mule ewe lamb but with more genetic science and the ability to keep a highly prolific closed flock if you wish, and a much more valuable wether lamb.
I am told that BFL's tups only have a short lifespan and also can cost a significant amount!!

So why the 'hire purchase' with that 1 particular ram 'breed' and not the others? What's so special about the Aberdale that it warrants to be sold in this way?

Given the pricing system Innovis use in their sales - those rams are a hell of an expensive over their life. I understand fully, you use them to breed ewe lambs, but no other breed/breeder has this sort of stipulation

Unlike Innovis, every other breed/breeder/sale has rams of all values (EB's AND price)... you pay the price the hammer falls at - you don't pay the same, or almost as much, next year for that ram again. 1 off payment and the ram is yours for life, or you can sell him on and get some money back if you decide you don't like him. I suspect Innovis don't give you any money back if a tup isn't liked after you see his lambs on the ground?

You don't need to sell me on the drawbacks of the BFL life expectancy, you may be told they have a short life - I have the first hand experience 🤣 but I bet an awful lot of Aberdales "die" within the first year of 'purchase'. Unless, ofcourse, Innovis come and collect the carcase to make sure it has actually died...
 
Because they want to keep control of the inverdale gene , don't know if the contracts still specify that any females for sale have to be sold through innovis . A dead ram just needs a vet to certify death and you will get a replacement , same if any breeding / health problems or if he doesn't suit then you can swap him
 

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